This is when you know reform is needed:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The Economist praises the Swedish health care system over the American on issues of incentives.

Article linked here:

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13899647

Also....an image worth keeping in mind for defenders of the broken system:



Now, there's something wrong with this picture. See if you can tell me what it is.....

X-posted from my own LJ.

Comments

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

"Now, there's something wrong with this picture. See if you can tell me what it is.....

There's way too much spending on public health care.

More importantly, though, it does put the lie to the idea that we can do much about costs. The public spending isn't going away, and will increase as it replaces some of the private spending. The issue? Obamacare does not address private, non-out-of-pocket spending very well, which is the other big-ticket item. The folks who'll get on the stupid public opinion will either a) not have been covered before or b) be switching from private to public. Spending won't change.

The problem isn't the type of payment. It's structural, and it's not going to change unless we allow ourselves to have shitty care like the other countries on the list.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

your continued ability to ignore the facts of the situation are a constant source of humor.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry, I had this mirror in front of me. You were saying?

[dwer.livejournal.com]

see, you spend too much time looking at your self and saying "hur hur hur, I fooled them again..."

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

It was facing you, silly.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

uh-huh.

Face it

[kadeshaderow.livejournal.com]

It went over your head. You had a blonde moment. Don't dig the hole deeper.

Re: Face it

[dwer.livejournal.com]

uh, no. Jeff rarely goes over anyone's head.

Then it must be that much more embarassing for you that you missed it

[kadeshaderow.livejournal.com]

n/t

Re: Then it must be that much more embarassing for you that you missed it

[dwer.livejournal.com]

you should stop talking.

Re: Face it

[ghoststrider.livejournal.com]

WOW.

Of all the moments of stupidity I've seen on the intarwebs...this one wins.

If you seriously can't get it, then you are functionally retarded.

Re: Face it

[dwer.livejournal.com]

if you seriously think that I didn't understand what he was trying to say -- never mind the fact that it didn't work -- then you must be a conservitard functionally republican.

Duh.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Which countries on that list have shitty care?

Your opinions are mostly very well thought out but on this point you are in error. Statistics on infant mortality, etc. bear out that the U.S. only has good health care for people who pay for premium service and those other countries beat us by pretty much every benchmark, including cost efficiency.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Which countries on that list have shitty care?

Most of the ones listed below the US on the list.

Your opinions are mostly very well thought out but on this point you are in error. Statistics on infant mortality, etc. bear out that the U.S. only has good health care for people who pay for premium service and those other countries beat us by pretty much every benchmark, including cost efficiency.

So what's the international standard on infant mortality again? Because you know that there isn't one, right?

It's the same with a lot of these statistics - our life expectancy is hurt by our homicide rate, which health care has little to do with. Our cost efficiency doesn't take into effect our innovations, which, of course, cost more.

We may spend more, but we get more bang for our buck when the chips are down, and most people don't pay anything close to $6000 per capita out of pocket (as the graph notes).

[dwer.livejournal.com]

and you continue to miss the point. The people who have insurance are mostly ok -- they at least have SOME level of care. It's all the expenses for uninsured people who have to resort to the ER who get charged tens of thousands of dollars for their care.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

So, again, why blow up the whole thing and make the care worse to solve that alleged problem?

[dwer.livejournal.com]

if only Obama really was "blowing up the whole thing" and junking the dysfunctional system we have. Single Payer really is the way to go, and it's because of wingnuts like you that it's not happening.

Nevertheless, improvement is needed. Obama isn't "blowing the whole thing up", he's suggesting that the government should be making improvements.

I realize that for someone who thinks that government can never work, it's a difficult concept, but hey, it's never nice to point at the retarded kids.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

ingle Payer really is the way to go, and it's because of wingnuts like you that it's not happening.

Opposition to single payer is broad. To blame it on the "wingnuts" (who are, by the way, correct) is to deny the reality.

I realize that for someone who thinks that government can never work, it's a difficult concept, but hey, it's never nice to point at the retarded kids.

The times government does work is rare. Health is too important to entrust to the government.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

well, this is what you get for looking into that mirror.

Health care is too important, so it cannot be entrusted to the government, but NATIONAL DEFENSE is entrusted to the government?

No. Health care is too important to be left to profiteering robber barons.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Health care is too important, so it cannot be entrusted to the government, but NATIONAL DEFENSE is entrusted to the government?

Correct, mostly because of the diplomatic power and international role the government plays. If it was possible to create a situation where privatized homeland defense could exist with all the other other countries involved, I'd be all for it.

No. Health care is too important to be left to profiteering robber barons.

It's a good thing we leave it to private insurers instead, then.

[typewriterking.livejournal.com]

... it's never nice to point at the retarded kids.

How progressive of you.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Most of the ones listed below the US on the list.

Ever been to a clinic in any of those countries? Jus' curious.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

No, thankfully.

Besides that, though, I know better than to treat my own personal experiences as predictive. That goes for US healthcare, too.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

Ah. Its got something to do with preemptive non-traveling. I mean, why visit those places? They suck anyway. Or so they say on the TV ;)

Besides, Wikipedia is always there.

[ghoststrider.livejournal.com]

Actually, infant mortality statistics just point out that other countries like to kill babies.