Pissing on holy Mammon? How DARE he!

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/02/rush-limbaugh-vs-the-pope/

"But Limbaugh, whose program is estimated to reach 15 million listeners, called the Pope's comments "sad" and "unbelievable." "It's sad because this pope makes it very clear he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to capitalism and socialism and so forth.""

Oh how worked up the Pope has made some guys! Suddenly the pontiff stops being so infallible, eh? He just doesn't understand what Jesus is whispering in his ear, and he needs someone to explain it to him. Someone who knows more about capitalism and socialism "and so forth".

Someone like a Fox "news" commentator, perhaps?

"I go to church to save my soul," said Fox News' Stuart Varney, who is an Episcopalian. "It's got nothing to do with my vote. Pope Francis has linked the two. He has offered direct criticism of a specific political system. He has characterized negatively that system. I think he wants to influence my politics."

So... capitalism is a political system, now? When did that happen, pray tell? (pun unintended) When did capitalism stop being an economic and social system using markets to distribute goods and services, and suddenly become a political system? I thought capitalism was a tool? Does this, highly competent and infinitely infallible pundit, by any chance, happen to be mixing up capitalism with democracy? As if speaking with a British accent would magically make him look smarter, eh? But what do I know. I'm not on Fox "news", therefore I don't know shit about these things "and so forth".

See, the very notion of capitalism being an imperfect tool and this possibly warranting criticism thereof, must be such a scary prospect to a certain segment of society. The very notion that without regulation, capitalist markets tend to fail to account for all costs ("externalities", as the PC term goes, like pollution for example), or to meet the needs and interests of society in an adequate way (like preventing child labor) - that's such a blasphemy to the worshipers of King Dollar. Anathema!

In a way, right-wing conservatives like the two guys cited above have raised Capitalism (capital C) to a pedestal, and it sits even higher than their precious Jesus, whose name they so eagerly and shamelessly use as a war-flag at any given opportunity. They've turned pure, hardcore, unbridled capitalism into an ideal, not a tool. An end by itself, rather than a means to an end.

Which is exactly why they'd now cringe almost like a Pavlov-dog reflex, and hysterically cry a river of tears with a face reddened like a tomato, even at the remotest hint of criticism of their actual god. Somehow, reminding people that capitalism is just a tool, a relatively efficient and useful tool for allocating goods and services to a maximum number of people, but still a tool with its own flaws that need addressing - is now viewed among those circles as if it were some kind of Marxist crazy-talk. Well, I say stay classy, right-wingers. Kneeling before Mammon - you're doing it well.

Really, why would it matter that the Pope criticizing capitalism in its current form =/= advocating forcing people to give up their property and redistribute it to everyone else (i.e. Marxism)? All that matters is that Rush and his listeners and supporters are so, so utterly SHOCKED to see the dogma of their true religion, Capitalism, being challenged. And they can now share their shock with each other, and raise their trembling voices of righteous indignation into a choir of weeping and wailing, tears in the eyes and face reddened like a tomato. And that'd help them feel more accomplished, validated, more significant than they are, removing all insecurity, silencing all complexes. All they need to do is shut their ears, wave their hands, and keep repeating the mantras that their selected preacher has deigned upon them.

I bet if Rush & Co. ever met Jesus in person without suspecting of his identity, they'd label him a Marxist outright, and drown him in rivers of spittle after exchanging just a couple of sentences with the guy. All he need say is, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God"; and: "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven".

But yeah, I get it, he's just a "comedian", right? He likes to emphasize on his points by using comedic effect? They all do that, right? Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity... That's always been my fave disclaimer. And also this one: "See, he's just saying whatever would help him gain more audience, and ultimately, sell his product to the public better". So the really sad thing here is not that he's a hypocrite, twisting and using the Gospel to his personal benefit, and to push an agenda that runs directly counter to anything said Gospel preaches - no, it's the fact that he has "an estimated 15 million listeners", who follow every word he says, then regurgitate it in society, and ultimately, pick a considerably significant portion of the leaders of that society, to then go and craft policies that would eventually affect everyone.

Let's stop pretending that these guys are not calling the shots within a considerably significant segment of society, shall we?

Comments

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

I may be a big old Heeb but I've also taught at Catholic affiliates schools both at the high school and university level, so I do observe these things with interest.

Some liberals may be overly gleeful that Pope Francis is making a change in focus and rhetoric without noting that he has done not one thing to DOCTRINE. He will not move to let priests marry. Homosexual unions are still sinful. Abortion and birth control positions for the Church will not change. He is still quite conservative.

But to listen to Limbaugh and his ilk, you have to realize they don't get it either and in a frankly worse way. Pope Francis is, very refreshingly, pushing the Church to live up to its Doctrine in all areas....which means changing the constant public focus on divisive social issues and leading by example. The Church is SUPPOSED to exhaust the down trodden and to speak passionately on their behalf. It is supposed to affirm the right to life not just by opposing abortion, but by opposing war and affirming the need for the poor to EAT.

This Pope isn't a liberal or a socialist. He's not a hypocrite. I like him.

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

he has done not one thing to DOCTRINE. He will not move to let priests marry. Homosexual unions are still sinful. Abortion and birth control positions for the Church will not change. He is still quite conservative

What, you mean HE'S NOT MARXIST!?

You've shattered quite a few worldviews!

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Makes sense to me.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile, here's what another Catholic recently said:

"Aid is just a stopgap. Commerce [and] entrepreneurial capitalism take more people out of poverty than aid. We need Africa to become an economic powerhouse"

Guess who it was? Bono, of all peeps.

That corporate mouthpiece, eh? ;)

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

He's right though.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what he was on at the time that pic was being shot, but it does look kinda scary.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

I think it was something he picked up in the Dominican Republic.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

It's interesting seeing the reactions to Pope Francis. Some on the right are trying to make this the case, the Pope is being misunderstood, and his message is suffering at the hands of poor English translations. But that seems to ignore the last 175 years of Catholic teaching on social justice, poverty, "the idolatry of the marketplace," American consumerism, unions, and fundamental human dignity and rights of workers. This odd notion by conservatives the pope is suffering at the hands of bad translation that the American Catholic Conference of Bishops (which is far more conservative now than it was say in the 1960s - early 1980s), who all speak perfectly fine English, condemned Paul Ryan's budget plan as 'unmoral.' And when Ryan was boasting that his political views were based on the New Testament, and his personal faith as a Roman Catholic, sixty American Catholic theologians issued a press report, and the letter they sent to him (and their English is pretty good too), was a serious misrepresentation of the Catholic faith.

Then you have the case of liberal leaning non Catholics, or atheists, or non-denominational tapping their feet thinking that unless Pope Francis changes specific church doctrines this exact minute*, they're pretty unimpressed and "Meh." As a world leader, the Pope is saying and doing things that are pretty unparalleled by any current political leaders in the West (e.g. this statement the Pope made last week: “How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?”). Even the President doesn't make that many strong statements about making it a matter of morality; the President will stop far short of that and say it's just not American). Meanwhile you have notable public conservative Catholics who are pushing back (notably Bill O'Really, who offered the suggestion some people are poor because well "aren't they drug addicts?").

But I think Pope Francis' speeches and writings, and most of all, his personal examples will have an impact; and he will create a climate that will hopefully lead to more changes. I use the Gorbachev analogy. When he came to power, there were a lot of skeptics about HIS changes and proposals. It finally took Maggie Thacher calling President Reagan to convince him that he was "someone we could do business with." So in what, six years we went from expecting WWIII to almost unilateral disarmament, with the USSR and USA nearly giving up all their nuclear weapons (but short of that, the two countries negotiated significant reductions on both sides with radical proposals for Europe, etc etc.) That's the power of an individual, at the right place, at the right time.


-------------------------------------------------
* (The pope is revisiting priestly celibacy, which really is a not a "dogma" but instead a church practise that can be rescinded at anytime), and would only affect secular priests, not monastic orders.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

unless Pope Francis changes specific church doctrines this exact minute*, they're pretty unimpressed

Its not that I don't like his talk. Its that the Church's walk has been deadly harmful. The Church's present position concerning homosexuality is itself "disordered" in the sense that it is "ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil". (I chose my words from their own.)

I don't accept, apologize for, or in any way defend such a position. When Francis reverses this, or even plants seeds to do so, I'll be pleased, but twice shy.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile, in Rome...

Rome ancient frescoes reignite debate over women priests (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25021623)

The reopening of a labyrinth of catacombs in Rome has reignited a debate over women priests in early Christianity...

Women's groups say frescoes on the walls at the Catacombs of Priscilla are evidence that women occupied the role of priests in ancient times...

...But the Vatican has dismissed them as pure "fable, a legend".

The Vatican has restricted the priesthood for men and teaches that women cannot become priests because Jesus willingly chose only men as his apostles...


Except he didn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_disciples_of_Jesus). That was a tale that the early patriarchs crafted to justify restricting women's access to priesthood, and appropriate all power. An all accounts contradicting that dogma were tossed out of the mainstream, and declared heretic eventually.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Junia is specifically mentioned by name as a female apostle in the New Testament. Others are implied.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

Jesus also rode a donkey everywhere, so I guess that means we all have to get rid of our cars by that same logic.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

The Vatican has restricted the priesthood for men and teaches that women cannot become priests because Jesus willingly chose only men as his apostles...

Also, IIRC, because females cannot embody Christ (who had a penis!) and therefore cannot transsubstantiate the Eucharist into Christ's actual body.

[nairiporter.livejournal.com]

Stuart Varney: "I go to church to save my soul".
Jon Stewart: "Then why aren't you there right now?"

Ha! :-)

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

Except that statement is doctrinally wrong if taken literally to begin with. Or maybe church attendance is a mandatory part of salvation in Catholicism?

Like a Herald Sings, they do

[rick-day.livejournal.com]

Fox Limbaugh is a totes serious player on the world political scene and should be taken both serious, and feared as PopeSlayer. He should never be taken lightly and is a threat to democracy and liberals.





..if only these dissenting voices could be silenced...

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

Good thing the valiant white-knights are never too late to pop up and vouch for FREEDOM!

And LIBERTY!

Also... weed!

Peace, bro.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

I <3 Pope Francis.

Also...hi y'all. I'm back. :P

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Well observed!

When did capitalism stop being an economic and social system using markets to distribute goods and services, and suddenly become a political system?

That's the joke! All economic theories are, in essence, at their core, political systems! Think about it. Economic theories dictate who should keep money, what money is, how it should be created and circulated, how/if it should be exchanged for value . . . everything necessary to determine who keeps that value and who produces it!

In fact, back when Adam Smith was scribbling furiously in the late 18th century, he was quilling what was then called "political economy," and if you wanted to study it formally the place to go was a university or college that had course in the same. The first major university that had a simple "Economics" department was the University of Chicago, which is a hotbed of the kind of economics Rush "out on a" Limbaugh espouses. Weird, right?

It gets better! As you note, these guys use the following excuse:

"See, he's just saying whatever would help him gain more audience, and ultimately, sell his product to the public better".

Ah, but wait! All commercially-controlled media outlets do this! Why? Because they are supported by Capitalists, who demand that the media outlets they support also support capitalism!!!

Ever wonder why no telly outfit ever broadcast a non-polemical scholarly program outlining what Karl Marx actually wrote about economics? Ever wonder why the only mention of Marx and his "followers" is dismissive? Ever wonder—going to the heart of the established "economics is a science", despite all evidence that it truly is not—why no one on telly notes that Alfred Nobel gave not two shits about economics and most certainly did not endow a prize to award advances in it, let alone give those prizes along with the prizes he did endow?

No, no program would, not if they are supported by the system asking such questions might undermine!

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

He just doesn't understand what Jesus is whispering in his ear, and he needs someone to explain it to him

Well, first of all he's going to need someone who speaks Aramaic...

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

I was a child in the USA in the 1980's, and the idea that, "A Christian is a capitalist is an American is YOU," was endemic and largely unchallenged in very mainstream media. It's a form of "political correctness" in the USA, that we are considered disloyal not to be actively for capitalism. Maybe more now that the Cold War is officially "over."

I can easily believe that if I have sometimes found myself scrambling words, using "American," "human," & "Christian," for each other, that some people confuse those concepts.

Remove "human" from that embarrassing concept confusion scramble, throw in "conservative," & "capitalist," and you pretty much have the deliberately propagandized dogma of the cult of the Americanist Christian Right. So of course "a real Christian is a religious conservative (like your church, not those UCC/ELCA/Anglican whores) is a political conservative is an anticommunist is a capitalist." Having the Pope puncture that is scary to those who use that exact thinking to win elections and set policy.

[ivankon.livejournal.com]

I remember it was a Marxist idea that economical and political systems are inseparable things.

Capitalism is a tool but not political system? Do you mean capitalism = free market?

[404.livejournal.com]

Oh noessss, Fox "news" scare quotes!!!

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

We wouldn't want people to mistakenly thing it's a news channel.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Varney is an awful person.



HOWELL: Do you think that federal workers, when this ends, are deserving of their back pay or not?

VARNEY: That is a loaded question isn't it? You want my opinion? This is President Obama's shutdown. He is responsible for shutting this thing down; he's taken an entirely political decision here. No, I don't think they should get their back pay, frankly, I really don't. I'm sick and tired of a massive, bloated federal bureaucracy living on our backs, and taking money out of us, a lot more money than most of us earn in the private sector, then getting a furlough, and then getting their money back at the end of it. Sorry, I'm not for that. I want to punish these people. Sorry to say that, but that's what I want to do.


The market of good and bad isn't working. Too many bad people have power and are using it to support bad things

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Oh, and when it's pointed out, the obvious:



JACOBSON: But it's not their fault. It's not the federal employees' fault. I mean, that's what I'm sick of, I hate and it makes me anxious, to see people who are victimized because of a political fight.

VARNEY: I take your point Amy, it is not directly their fault, but I'm looking at the big picture here. I'm getting screwed. Here I am, a private citizen, paying an inordinate amount of money in tax. I've got a slow economy because it's all government, all the time. And these people are living on our backs, regulating us, telling us what to do, taxing us, taking our money, and living large. This is my chance to say "hey, I'm fed up with this and I don't miss you when you're on furlough." Sorry if that's a harsh tone, but that's the way I feel.

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Capitalism became a political system in the US when Alexander Hamilton incorporated the national bank with funding from the private sector. One could say it was a political system in general before then because nations leaned on private investors to fund their military campaigns. The American constitution was crafted to correct the inability of the confederation of newly independent states to pay back the money borrowed from private sources to support the revolutionary war with England.

As for Rush, the reason why conservatives do not go to Hell when they die is that they wind up in Limbaugh.

I have a good video to go along with the Limbaugh GIF:

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

But Limbaugh, whose program is estimated to reach 15 million listeners, called the Pope's comments "sad" and "unbelievable." "It's sad because this pope makes it very clear he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to capitalism and socialism and so forth.""

Nice going. Now you have Rush Limbaugh all upset



PS. Don't watch too much of this or you'll go blind.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

The funny thing is, probably about 8 million of those listeners are liberals looking for things to complain about, and 6 million are people who have it on for background noise.