You had one f-ing job.....

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Uh, red team, wtf? You've allowed these tea party freaks drive to the car into a ditch. That's the plan?

“We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”

Well, yay for hurting people IRL?

TIM MURPHY: Well, the short answer is about 20 percent of the federal government, 800,000 federal workers, will show up to work today and be sent home, and that includes 400,000 civilian workers from the Department of the Defense. That’s the department that probably gets the most cuts from this. The longer answer is, you know, pretty much various things that you use in your everyday life will no longer be open to you. People applying for mortgages will have trouble getting that from the federal government. People trying to fill out their taxes will no longer be able to call the IRS to ask basic questions. The Coast Guard is cutting back some of its navigation assistance. Auto—new automobile inspections will be curtailed. The EPA is closing 94 percent of its responsibilities for the foreseeable future. You know, there’s kind of this perception that the shutdown mostly just affects Washington, D.C., and it really does affect Washington, D.C., but it goes much broader than that.

Yay, shut down the EPA, bring back acid rain!!!. NRC has slashed planned nuke plant inspections! NOAA is slashing. EPA is really fucked. NASA Voyager, fucked. Mars Rover is fucked Kids being kicked out of cancer treatments:

"At the National Institutes of Health, nearly three-quarters of the staff was furloughed. One result: director Francis Collins said about 200 patients who otherwise would be admitted to the NIH Clinical Center into clinical trials each week will be turned away. This includes about 30 children, most of them cancer patients, he said."

Awwww hell yeah! Who needs to regulate pesticides, amirite? No more monitoring beef for ecoli, meat eaters. The CDC wont be able to monitor outbreaks or even create a proper flu vaccine - you could have millions of deaths on your hands. Way to stick it to those sciences, red team! Yee haw for hee haw! Gun sale permits are also going to be hampered, opps!!!! Families of American soldiers slain in Afghanistan will be denied death benefits. You shut down the panda cam too dammit:

the deal with the shutdown is it essentially gets worse the longer it goes on. And in 1995 and 1996 it went on for 28 days and ended up costing the U.S., I think, about $2 billion in economic losses, just because people don’t have money and they’re not spending it. So you have the 800,000 workers who will be furloughed, and they’ll be furloughed without pay. And when the shutdown eventually ends, they’ll get that pay. But in the meantime, you know, they’re trying to make ends meet. The government did pass an emergency measure to continue paying members of the armed services last night, so they’ll still work and they’ll still get their pay. But families whose, you know, loved ones die in Afghanistan will not get death benefits in that period. You know, civilian contractors will not, by and large, be showing up to work. The EPA will shut down almost all of its services. The National Zoo will close. Even the panda cam that lets you watch, you know, the pandas on a live stream 24 hours a day will shut down. NASA, I think, is furloughing about 97 percent of its staff. You know, people who depend on the federal government for funding for WIC food assistance will not get that. It’s up to their state whether they’ll get that going forward. Some states have obligations to do that; some states could probably care less. Heating assistance as the weather gets colder is something that is now up in the air. You know, there’s just kind of this wide range of government programs. Head Start, which is a program that has already been kind of really hammered by the sequestration cuts over the last seven months, is going to get further cuts over the next couple of weeks if the shutdown persists, as grants are now put on hold. So, you know, whether you have kids, whether you’re a college student relying on federal student loans or Pell Grants, whether you’re a senior citizen, whether you’re living in a cold region without heat, this shutdown will affect you.

All these self inflicted wounds because they hate a bill that was passed by congress, signed by a president who basically was elected on the issue, and ruled constitutional by the Supreme court. The bastard child of the Heritage foundation, RomneyObamacare aka the Affordable Care Act. Gawd forbid birth control be covered.



This woman is far more eloquent than I could be on the issue, so here:

I have a pre-existing condition and I stand to lower my premium, my deductible, and my prescription costs. I promise to return the money I save to the economy quite promptly, I'm good at that part. Just lower your gun and stop hurting people. Pretty please?

To quote Lincoln: "What is our present condition? We have just carried an election on principles fairly stated to the people. Now we are told in advance, the government shall be broken up, unless we surrender to those we have beaten, before we take the offices. In this they are either attempting to play upon us, or they are in dead earnest. Either way, if we surrender, it is the end of us, and of the government. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum."

Comments

[ironhawke.livejournal.com]

I'm just gonna jump in here for a moment. Yes, Republicans were voted into office on the premise that they would eliminate Obamacare. They were voted in by people who agreed with their stance and hoped that they could make efforts towards that end.

HOWEVER.

We have a President, voted in by the people, who has said unequivocally that any substantial changes to Obamacare are nonstarters, we also have a Senate, controlled by Democrats who also were voted into by the people, who have said essentially the same thing.

The problem here is that the Tea Party (a minority of the minority in the Senate, and a minority of the majority in the House) has decided that in spite of these stands, continue to pass bills that ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT pass. They know this fact and yet pass them anyway. They don't pass bills that genuinely attempt to work with Democrats, they only pass bills that are Tea Party boilerplate, throw the shit pile onto the Senate's steps, then scream their heads off when the Senate does what anyone else would do....dump the shit in the trash.

All of this aside though, Obama did make a very telling statement the other day. (Paraphrasing) "Allowing the Tea Party to hold the country hostage for their demands, and negotiating with them only gives them an incentive to continue with these catastrophic fights."

This I think is why we're here. Obama knows that if he budges on this, lets say for instance he allows a one year extension of the ACA, that a year from know the SAME people who are driving the country to its knees will simply do it again, and again, and again. They simply do not care about functioning government and only dedicate themselves to the altar of the extreme right.

Personally I'm aghast with the whole thing. But I believe the Obama's got it right this time. The Republicans are gonna take the fall for this, and during next year's midterms they're gonna get their asses kicked for pulling this stunt. Personally I would prefer a divided government (meaning one of the Houses of Congress is controlled by the Dems, and one by the Reps) because it allows for a more sane dialogue, once the Republicans cleans house and gets rid of these psychopaths we can finally start getting the country back on track.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Obama knows that if he budges on this, lets say for instance he allows a one year extension of the ACA, that a year from know the SAME people who are driving the country to its knees will simply do it again, and again, and again. They simply do not care about functioning government and only dedicate themselves to the altar of the extreme right.

I'm well aware of this. I would argue, contrary to the unfounded assumptions of my opinions elsewhere, that Obama shouldn't budge on the ACA, and I think Republican's, for the most part, know that he won't. Having said that, I think the House leadership is hoping to get something out of it, not related to the ACA, but to the debt limit coming up. This thing won't end until that fight comes up in a couple weeks, and Republicans will take concessions on that in exchange for a clean CR or at least, that is what they hope.

Personally I'm aghast with the whole thing. But I believe the Obama's got it right this time. The Republicans are gonna take the fall for this, and during next year's midterms they're gonna get their asses kicked for pulling this stunt.

I'm fully disgusted with the whole thing myself, however Obama lost me when he decided to do an all or nothing CR. I don't see funding parts of government as bending. I see blocking it as inflicting damage, just like Republicans are, to create political pressure to get the Republicans to fold. Now, I guess I should say that this isn't excusing Republicans for there shitheadedness or somehow saying they share equal blame, but I think Obama and Dems lost the moral high ground that they had earlier before they decided that route. Now I just see a bunch of grown adults throwing insults at each other. I'm not very impressed or happy with much anyone running our government.

I also think Obama would have been able to achieve his goal, a clean CR unattached to changes in the ACA, while simultaneously trying to get Republicans to limit the pain the shutdown inflicts. Instead we have Republicans doing that, and Democrats blocking it and for obvious reasons. Fighting fire with fire I suppose, I just don't like that it is the American people getting burnt.

Republicans cleans house and gets rid of these psychopaths

If anything, this might strengthen reelection hopes for those "psychopaths" and mostly hurt the moderate Republicans in the House, or it may not have much of an affect at all, depending on the outcome of the shutdown which I think, ultimately, will be concessions in the debt limit debate.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

I'm fully disgusted with the whole thing myself, however Obama lost me when he decided to do an all or nothing CR. I don't see funding parts of government as bending. I see blocking it as inflicting damage, just like Republicans are, to create political pressure to get the Republicans to fold. Now, I guess I should say that this isn't excusing Republicans for there shitheadedness or somehow saying they share equal blame, but I think Obama and Dems lost the moral high ground that they had earlier before they decided that route. Now I just see a bunch of grown adults throwing insults at each other. I'm not very impressed or happy with much anyone running our government.

So, you would have preferred he repeal the ACA to fund the parts of the government the tea party wants?

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

I would argue, contrary to the unfounded assumptions of my opinions elsewhere, that Obama shouldn't budge on the ACA,

I mean... it was the first thing I typed?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

That is exactly what he did and yet he "lost you".

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

What is it that the Republicans wanted in return for passing a spending bill that would fund the VA, NIH, and the NPS?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Defund Obamacare, and the debt ceiling would include a delay of the health care law.

Okay, forgive me if in these 250+ comments I lost the train here. My bad. Please state optimally what it is that you would like Obama / blue team to do here. Because I am confused because I hear you saying he should have budged and then he shouldn't. Please enlighten me.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Defund Obamacare, and the debt ceiling would include a delay of the health care law.

Actually, no. Republican's wanted to do this with no attachments at all. Obama said he would veto it, and Dems voted against the bill so he wouldn't have to. Obama said something along the lines of "We aren't playing these games, we will fund everything or none of it." I disagree with this. I think this is where they lost the moral high ground.

Please state optimally what it is that you would like Obama / blue team to do here. Because I am confused because I hear you saying he should have budged and then he shouldn't. Please enlighten me.

I would be happy to! Obama should have pushed spending bills that would fund important agencies to limit the damage done by the shutdown at midnight, like he did with military pay, with the stipulation that those bills would not include any changes to the ACA. This way, Democrats could take the position that they are working to help the American people despite Republican's best effort otherwise. Politically, I think this is a stronger position than going, 'look at all the damage Republicans caused.' I think Republican's ultimately know Obama isn't going to budge on the ACA. And while I have my doubts that it would work, Obama should have been negotiating concessions on the debt ceiling that was in no way tied to ACA to avoid a shutdown and get a "clean" CR (note, this isn't me blaming Obama for the shutdown). I have my doubts that it would work because I think a lot of House Republicans view this as an opportunity to show that they are trying to get rid of Obamacare and think it will get them reelected. I'm not sure if their belief is well founded or not.

Either way, I don't see this shutdown ending until the debt ceiling showdown in a couple weeks, and I would hope at least one of the parties wasn't using the pain and suffering of the American people as political capital in their childish arguments.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Okay, I understand your argument and thanks for presenting it. I have to run for a bit, I'll ponder it.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

Thank you for outlining this so clearly. What you've said does sound optimal. I feel like it would be hard to make happen but I would like to see the Dems at least attempt it.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Thanks for taking the time to read it. I think, politically, Republican's walking away with nothing isn't an option for them, much like changes to the ACA isn't a option for Obama. During the fiscal cliff, many Republicans felt a bit burned by the higher taxes and very little budget cuts, and they probably aren't going to be willing to accept a similar deal here. That doesn't mean Obama has to walk away empty handed either. I would hope that in exchange of significant budget cuts, the GOP leadership would accept some tax increases so both sides can at least say they didn't lose so Obama can say "look tax increases and the ACA is untouched". In reality though, I don't think much of anyone is going to win from this, in particular the American people.

But is it possible that Democrats current strategy of allowing the shutdown to hurt as much as possible will work? Sure, Republicans are already certainly feeling the pressure and it would be a better victory for Obama and Dems if they get Republicans to bend without giving any concessions. I just can't condone a strategy of intentionally causing pain to the American Public from Democrats any more than I could Republican's doing it when they decided to go ahead with the shutdown in the first place. I guess I'm a bit oldschool, where I think our government should be looking out for the best interest of the American people instead of using their pain and suffering as political capital to score a political victory.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Thank you!!!!