You had one f-ing job.....

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Uh, red team, wtf? You've allowed these tea party freaks drive to the car into a ditch. That's the plan?

“We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”

Well, yay for hurting people IRL?

TIM MURPHY: Well, the short answer is about 20 percent of the federal government, 800,000 federal workers, will show up to work today and be sent home, and that includes 400,000 civilian workers from the Department of the Defense. That’s the department that probably gets the most cuts from this. The longer answer is, you know, pretty much various things that you use in your everyday life will no longer be open to you. People applying for mortgages will have trouble getting that from the federal government. People trying to fill out their taxes will no longer be able to call the IRS to ask basic questions. The Coast Guard is cutting back some of its navigation assistance. Auto—new automobile inspections will be curtailed. The EPA is closing 94 percent of its responsibilities for the foreseeable future. You know, there’s kind of this perception that the shutdown mostly just affects Washington, D.C., and it really does affect Washington, D.C., but it goes much broader than that.

Yay, shut down the EPA, bring back acid rain!!!. NRC has slashed planned nuke plant inspections! NOAA is slashing. EPA is really fucked. NASA Voyager, fucked. Mars Rover is fucked Kids being kicked out of cancer treatments:

"At the National Institutes of Health, nearly three-quarters of the staff was furloughed. One result: director Francis Collins said about 200 patients who otherwise would be admitted to the NIH Clinical Center into clinical trials each week will be turned away. This includes about 30 children, most of them cancer patients, he said."

Awwww hell yeah! Who needs to regulate pesticides, amirite? No more monitoring beef for ecoli, meat eaters. The CDC wont be able to monitor outbreaks or even create a proper flu vaccine - you could have millions of deaths on your hands. Way to stick it to those sciences, red team! Yee haw for hee haw! Gun sale permits are also going to be hampered, opps!!!! Families of American soldiers slain in Afghanistan will be denied death benefits. You shut down the panda cam too dammit:

the deal with the shutdown is it essentially gets worse the longer it goes on. And in 1995 and 1996 it went on for 28 days and ended up costing the U.S., I think, about $2 billion in economic losses, just because people don’t have money and they’re not spending it. So you have the 800,000 workers who will be furloughed, and they’ll be furloughed without pay. And when the shutdown eventually ends, they’ll get that pay. But in the meantime, you know, they’re trying to make ends meet. The government did pass an emergency measure to continue paying members of the armed services last night, so they’ll still work and they’ll still get their pay. But families whose, you know, loved ones die in Afghanistan will not get death benefits in that period. You know, civilian contractors will not, by and large, be showing up to work. The EPA will shut down almost all of its services. The National Zoo will close. Even the panda cam that lets you watch, you know, the pandas on a live stream 24 hours a day will shut down. NASA, I think, is furloughing about 97 percent of its staff. You know, people who depend on the federal government for funding for WIC food assistance will not get that. It’s up to their state whether they’ll get that going forward. Some states have obligations to do that; some states could probably care less. Heating assistance as the weather gets colder is something that is now up in the air. You know, there’s just kind of this wide range of government programs. Head Start, which is a program that has already been kind of really hammered by the sequestration cuts over the last seven months, is going to get further cuts over the next couple of weeks if the shutdown persists, as grants are now put on hold. So, you know, whether you have kids, whether you’re a college student relying on federal student loans or Pell Grants, whether you’re a senior citizen, whether you’re living in a cold region without heat, this shutdown will affect you.

All these self inflicted wounds because they hate a bill that was passed by congress, signed by a president who basically was elected on the issue, and ruled constitutional by the Supreme court. The bastard child of the Heritage foundation, RomneyObamacare aka the Affordable Care Act. Gawd forbid birth control be covered.



This woman is far more eloquent than I could be on the issue, so here:

I have a pre-existing condition and I stand to lower my premium, my deductible, and my prescription costs. I promise to return the money I save to the economy quite promptly, I'm good at that part. Just lower your gun and stop hurting people. Pretty please?

To quote Lincoln: "What is our present condition? We have just carried an election on principles fairly stated to the people. Now we are told in advance, the government shall be broken up, unless we surrender to those we have beaten, before we take the offices. In this they are either attempting to play upon us, or they are in dead earnest. Either way, if we surrender, it is the end of us, and of the government. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum."

Comments

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Ted Cruz has come out as suggesting that the budget be voted piecemeal in the event of shut down. This leaves politically popular programs on safe ground, but politically questionable ones out in the open. The problem of course is that these programs have already been voted into law and shutting down the government to contest them is not proper procedure.

ETA: This of course puts the House bills in an entirely different context. Republicans aren't doing it to the minimize pain of a shutdown. They're attempting to destroy Obamacare.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

So your suggestion... the Republicans want to fund each section of government with a separate bill, and then just leave out Obamacare? Not only does that sound crazy, it also sounds impossible. I think I'll go with the explanation that makes sense.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

ETA:

Your move cheezyfish

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

You are going to have to give me a transcript of that video if you want me to address it.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

ITS 79 SECONDS LONG.

WALLACE: All right. But, Senator, here is the question everyone on both sides is asking in Washington, which is -- what's your end game? Let's say that you block consideration of any bill in the Senate. Or let's say that you lose, and the bill goes into the Senate and they take out ObamaCare and they send it back to the House -- what's your end game? Because the government is going to shut down a week from Monday.

CRUZ: Well, I don't want the government to shut down, the American people don't want the government to shut, and I don't think Harry Reid and President Obama should shut down the government.

Listen, if that happens -- if Harry Reid kills this bill in it the Senate, I think the House should hold its ground, and should begin passing smaller resolutions one department at a time. It should start, continuing resolution focused on the military -- fund the military, send it over, and let's see it Harry Reid is willing to shut down the military because he wants to force ObamaCare on the American people. I think that would be a very perilous decision for Harry Reid to make and if the House can keep driving this -- look, the House is the only body where the Republicans have a majority and so the House has to lead on this.

And I view my job and Mike Lee's job is providing as much support, as much air cover as we can for the House to stand up and lead. And I commend them for having than that last week.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Okay, given that, Cruz is crazy. I think you probably already thought that though, right? Either way, why would Obama not try to pass a spending bill that would eliminate "concernes about all those kids turned away from Cancer treatment, and all those hungry families who find their food assistance cut off?" He doesn't want to do that because Cruz is crazy?

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

"Republicans following Cruz’s playbook as shutdown crisis unfolds
By Mike Lillis, Peter Schroeder and Bernie Becker - 10/02/13 06:00 AM ET

House Republicans have more than taken a page out of Sen. Ted Cruz’s (R-Texas) shutdown playbook. They’re following it to a “T.” [WATCH VIDEO]

GOP leaders on Tuesday introduced a series of bills to fund specific parts of the government in lieu of one sweeping package — a strategy Cruz had floated a week ago and promoted again Monday night as the government was closing its doors.

The freshman senator has also been the driving force behind the plan to condition any new spending on the inclusion of provisions scaling back President Obama’s 2010 healthcare reform law."
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/326013-gop-following-cruzs-playbook-as-crisis-unfolds-
So House Republicans are now crazy by your own admission!


I've already explained this to you. Doing so would be an end run around democratically passed laws that are a cornerstone of the administration.

This would be akin to Democrats shutting down the government if single payer wasn't passed under George W. Bush. It's subverting the democratic process.
And the only reason Congress is Republican right now is because of gerrymandering. Democrats carried 1 million more votes than Republicans in the House in 2012.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

I think Cruz will fail because Obama isn't going to pass separate bills for each agency. But what Obama is going to do is let kids die of cancer? How is that an argument?

This would be akin to Democrats shutting down the government if single payer wasn't passed under George W. Bush. It's subverting the democratic process.

I don't really have the view that 'democracy=majority rules.' And that the minority is required to toe the line of the majority. Having said, that doesn't mean I support the route House Republicans decided to take, I don't, however "subverting the democratic process" is not how I would describe it.

And the only reason Congress is Republican right now is because of gerrymandering
So, what are you trying to say? That you disagree that many house remembers got elected because of their opposition to the healthcare law? Are all of their districts going to be redrawn in there next reelection? I'm not even sure what you are responding to?

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

I think Cruz will fail because Obama isn't going to pass separate bills for each agency. But what Obama is going to do is let kids die of cancer? How is that an argument?

Obama doesn't draft budget bills, the House does. The House is responsible for passing budgets that can get through the Senate and the White House. The House is refusing to do that. The House is to blame. Hell, Democrats have already conceded that they are willing to vote on a bill that keeps the cuts of sequestration in place and doesn't take inflation into account(thereby shrinking real expenditures).
I don't really have the view that 'democracy=majority rules.' And that the minority is required to toe the line of the majority. Having said, that doesn't mean I support the route House Republicans decided to take, I don't, however "subverting the democratic process" is not how I would describe it.

You don't view democracy to be definitionally majority rule???
If the Republicans get away with this, the precedent will be set for any small but vocal minority to LITERALLY grind government to a halt over their ideological quibbles. This renders government practically non-functional.

So, what are you trying to say? That you disagree that many house remembers got elected because of their opposition to the healthcare law? Are all of their districts going to be redrawn in there next reelection? I'm not even sure what you are responding to?
I was anticipating a possible rebuttal of yours that the House Republicans are merely following their constituents' wishes. My response is that the majority of people didn't vote for the Republican House and that there is no justification to give priority to the minority of constituents that did vote Republican over the majority of constituents of that didn't.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Obama doesn't draft budget bills, the House does. The House is responsible for passing budgets that can get through the Senate and the White House.

First of all, there hasn't been a budget since 2009. Secondly... lol. What? Why isn't it the Senate's responsibility to pass a CR that can pass in the House, or accept what the House has passed? Essentially you are saying the House only exist to please the Senate and the President. That isn't how it works. Overlooking your silly views on how government functions, what does this have to do with Democrats refusing to pass smaller appropriation bills to fund things like getting sick kids their cancer treatment and funding the VA?

You don't view democracy to be definitionally majority rule???

I guess, but only if I'm only allowed two words to define democracy.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Reading or logic fail on your part. To say that the House has an obligation to pass bills that could pass the Senate and the President is not to the Senate doesn't have a similar responsibility to the House and the President. The Senate for its part has passed a clean continuing resolution that would reportedly pass the House if it would be allowed a vote. House leadership blocks it procedurally.

Secondly, I've already explained why they refuse to negotiate smaller appropriations. Get it through your skull, REPUBLICANS ARE DOING THIS AS A METHOD OF DEFUNDING A DEMOCRATICALLY ENACTED LAW. THEY OPENLY ADMIT THIS. THE PRECEDENT THIS WOULD SET IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WOULD DESTROY THE FUNCTION OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNANCE.

I won't answer this question a third time.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Reading or logic fail on your part. To say that the House has an obligation to pass bills that could pass the Senate and the President is not to the Senate doesn't have a similar responsibility to the House and the President.

So you are saying there should be compromise? No No... majority rules!

REPUBLICANS ARE DOING THIS AS A METHOD OF DEFUNDING A DEMOCRATICALLY ENACTED LAW.

Your little theory isn't even that. It doesn't make a bloody lick of sense. You can't defund obamacare by funding everything else and not funding that. I don't care what Cruz says. You simply 100% cannot. The ACA is funded with mandatory funds, much like SS and Medicare. You actually have to pass a new bill that would take away its funding. TYPING IN ALL CAPS ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK SILLY.

THE PRECEDENT THIS WOULD SET IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WOULD DESTROY THE FUNCTION OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNANCE.

Again, you seem to have the majority rules over the minority form of government in your head, and it still has nothing to do with passing smaller appropriation bills to limit the damage caused by the shutdown which, of course, is the point of this conversation.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

So you are saying there should be compromise? No No... majority rules!

Re-read what I wrote. The Senate passed something that would pass both chambers by majority.
Your little theory isn't even that. It doesn't make a bloody lick of sense. You can't defund obamacare by funding everything else and not funding that. I don't care what Cruz says. You simply 100% cannot. The ACA is funded with mandatory funds, much like SS and Medicare. You actually have to pass a new bill that would take away its funding. TYPING IN ALL CAPS ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK SILLY.

This is why many people like Representative King and even fucking Grover Norquist are criticizing Cruz and his allies in the Congress over their lack of a coherent strategy post-shutdown. And they 100% could fund all politically popular items, and hold less popular items hostage by attaching a gutting of Obamacare to the segmented portions. This gives them exactly what they want without them conceding a damn thing. So long as WW2 vets get to go to a monument, who cares about NASA funding?? Furthermore, there is no clear priority that any piece of the budget has over the other outside of what has been deemed essential services. Then again this confusion is kind of the point in hostage taking. That you don't seem to understand this makes you look silly...

Again, you seem to have the majority rules over the minority form of government in your head, and it still has nothing to do with passing smaller appropriation bills to limit the damage caused by the shutdown which, of course, is the point of this conversation.

By passing piecemeal appropriations, you are legitimating this kind of tactic. It sets a precedent that allows for small groups of ideologues to hold up the government over their quibbles. It's also not terribly productive to watch a bunch of incoherent strategists like the one's in the House play football with appropriations.

Ok I'm done here. I've explained this to you 4 times.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

Re-read what I wrote. The Senate passed something that would pass both chambers by majority.

I get it, however the house speaker typically follows the majority of the majority rule when it comes to bringing bills to a vote. It isn't like they can't force the bill to a vote. They can, just those minority of Republicans that would vote yes would have to sign a discharge petition, which I doubt would happen.

This is why many people like Representative King and even fucking Grover Norquist are criticizing Cruz and his allies in the Congress over their lack of a coherent strategy post-shutdown. And they 100% could fund all politically popular items, and hold less popular items hostage by attaching a gutting of Obamacare to the segmented portions. This gives them exactly what they want without them conceding a damn thing.

So, the Democrats are refusing kids cancer treatment and federal parks are being forced to close for political tools against Republicans. I get it, the Democrats have political motivation to make the shutdown hurt worse than it has to, because they can't negotiate. It doesn't change the fact that they are.

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

Yea, keep blaming the Democrats for what the Republicans did.

It's like when Hans Gruber was holding everyone hostage in the Nakatomi tower. He threatened to kill Harry Ellis unless John McClane gave up the detonators. McClane knew that giving up the detonators might temporarily save Ellis, but would almost certainly lead to his own death, and probably everyone else's - and most likely wouldn't end up saving Ellis anyway. So he refused, and Gruber shot Ellis.

You are blaming John McClane for Ellis' death. Yes, in this conversation, you are fucking Dwayne T. Robinson, the Deputy Chief of Police.

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

By passing piecemeal appropriations, you are legitimating this kind of tactic

Are you under the impression this is the first time the government has been shutdown over entitlement spending?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

And what was the result of that last time it happened?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

To quote Lincoln: "What is our present condition? We have just carried an election on principles fairly stated to the people. Now we are told in advance, the government shall be broken up, unless we surrender to those we have beaten, before we take the offices. In this they are either attempting to play upon us, or they are in dead earnest. Either way, if we surrender, it is the end of us, and of the government. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum."

[telemann.livejournal.com]

ITS 79 SECONDS LONG.

Also: please make sure it's not too wonky of a link, if at all possible too.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Lolz, Ryan and Cruz are wonks!

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Well that's very true. But I was referring to some serious déjà vu. (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1767919.html?thread=140979951#t140979951)

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Allowing the government to shutdown is pretty crazy

[cheezyfish.livejournal.com]

It isn't like it is unheard of.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Doesn't make it any less crazy

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Neither are comets hitting the Earth, but that's no fun either.