talkpolitics | You had one f-ing job.....

yes-justice.livejournal.com posting in

Uh, red team, wtf? You've allowed these tea party freaks drive to the car into a ditch. That's the plan?

“We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”

TIM MURPHY: Well, the short answer is about 20 percent of the federal government, 800,000 federal workers, will show up to work today and be sent home, and that includes 400,000 civilian workers from the Department of the Defense. That’s the department that probably gets the most cuts from this. The longer answer is, you know, pretty much various things that you use in your everyday life will no longer be open to you. People applying for mortgages will have trouble getting that from the federal government. People trying to fill out their taxes will no longer be able to call the IRS to ask basic questions. The Coast Guard is cutting back some of its navigation assistance. Auto—new automobile inspections will be curtailed. The EPA is closing 94 percent of its responsibilities for the foreseeable future. You know, there’s kind of this perception that the shutdown mostly just affects Washington, D.C., and it really does affect Washington, D.C., but it goes much broader than that.

Yay, shut down the EPA, bring back acid rain!!!. NRC has slashed planned nuke plant inspections! NOAA is slashing. EPA is really fucked. NASA Voyager, fucked. Mars Rover is fucked Kids being kicked out of cancer treatments:

"At the National Institutes of Health, nearly three-quarters of the staff was furloughed. One result: director Francis Collins said about 200 patients who otherwise would be admitted to the NIH Clinical Center into clinical trials each week will be turned away. This includes about 30 children, most of them cancer patients, he said."

Awwww hell yeah! Who needs to regulate pesticides, amirite? No more monitoring beef for ecoli, meat eaters. The CDC wont be able to monitor outbreaks or even create a proper flu vaccine - you could have millions of deaths on your hands. Way to stick it to those sciences, red team! Yee haw for hee haw! Gun sale permits are also going to be hampered, opps!!!! Families of American soldiers slain in Afghanistan will be denied death benefits. You shut down the panda cam too dammit:

the deal with the shutdown is it essentially gets worse the longer it goes on. And in 1995 and 1996 it went on for 28 days and ended up costing the U.S., I think, about $2 billion in economic losses, just because people don’t have money and they’re not spending it. So you have the 800,000 workers who will be furloughed, and they’ll be furloughed without pay. And when the shutdown eventually ends, they’ll get that pay. But in the meantime, you know, they’re trying to make ends meet. The government did pass an emergency measure to continue paying members of the armed services last night, so they’ll still work and they’ll still get their pay. But families whose, you know, loved ones die in Afghanistan will not get death benefits in that period. You know, civilian contractors will not, by and large, be showing up to work. The EPA will shut down almost all of its services. The National Zoo will close. Even the panda cam that lets you watch, you know, the pandas on a live stream 24 hours a day will shut down. NASA, I think, is furloughing about 97 percent of its staff. You know, people who depend on the federal government for funding for WIC food assistance will not get that. It’s up to their state whether they’ll get that going forward. Some states have obligations to do that; some states could probably care less. Heating assistance as the weather gets colder is something that is now up in the air. You know, there’s just kind of this wide range of government programs. Head Start, which is a program that has already been kind of really hammered by the sequestration cuts over the last seven months, is going to get further cuts over the next couple of weeks if the shutdown persists, as grants are now put on hold. So, you know, whether you have kids, whether you’re a college student relying on federal student loans or Pell Grants, whether you’re a senior citizen, whether you’re living in a cold region without heat, this shutdown will affect you.

All these self inflicted wounds because they hate a bill that was passed by congress, signed by a president who basically was elected on the issue, and ruled constitutional by the Supreme court. The bastard child of the Heritage foundation, ~~Romney~~Obamacare aka the Affordable Care Act. Gawd forbid birth control be covered.

This woman is far more eloquent than I could be on the issue, so here:

I have a pre-existing condition and I stand to lower my premium, my deductible, and my prescription costs. I promise to return the money I save to the economy quite promptly, I'm good at that part. Just lower your gun and stop hurting people. Pretty please?

To quote Lincoln: "What is our present condition? We have just carried an election on principles fairly stated to the people. Now we are told in advance, the government shall be broken up, unless we surrender to those we have beaten, before we take the offices. In this they are either attempting to play upon us, or they are in dead earnest. Either way, if we surrender, it is the end of us, and of the government. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

cheezyfish.livejournal.com

Reading or logic fail on your part. To say that the House has an obligation to pass bills that could pass the Senate and the President is not to the Senate doesn't have a similar responsibility to the House and the President.

So you are saying there should be compromise? No No... majority rules!

REPUBLICANS ARE DOING THIS AS A METHOD OF DEFUNDING A DEMOCRATICALLY ENACTED LAW.

Your little theory isn't even that. It doesn't make a bloody lick of sense. You can't defund obamacare by funding everything else and not funding that. I don't care what Cruz says. You simply 100% cannot. The ACA is funded with mandatory funds, much like SS and Medicare. You actually have to pass a new bill that would take away its funding. TYPING IN ALL CAPS ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK SILLY.

THE PRECEDENT THIS WOULD SET IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WOULD DESTROY THE FUNCTION OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNANCE.

Again, you seem to have the majority rules over the minority form of government in your head, and it still has nothing to do with passing smaller appropriation bills to limit the damage caused by the shutdown which, of course, is the point of this conversation.

From:

rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com

So you are saying there should be compromise? No No... majority rules!

Re-read what I wrote. The Senate passed something that would pass both chambers by majority.
Your little theory isn't even that. It doesn't make a bloody lick of sense. You can't defund obamacare by funding everything else and not funding that. I don't care what Cruz says. You simply 100% cannot. The ACA is funded with mandatory funds, much like SS and Medicare. You actually have to pass a new bill that would take away its funding. TYPING IN ALL CAPS ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK SILLY.

This is why many people like Representative King and even fucking Grover Norquist are criticizing Cruz and his allies in the Congress over their lack of a coherent strategy post-shutdown. And they 100% could fund all politically popular items, and hold less popular items hostage by attaching a gutting of Obamacare to the segmented portions. This gives them exactly what they want without them conceding a damn thing. So long as WW2 vets get to go to a monument, who cares about NASA funding?? Furthermore, there is no clear priority that any piece of the budget has over the other outside of what has been deemed essential services. Then again this confusion is kind of the point in hostage taking. That you don't seem to understand this makes you look silly...

Again, you seem to have the majority rules over the minority form of government in your head, and it still has nothing to do with passing smaller appropriation bills to limit the damage caused by the shutdown which, of course, is the point of this conversation.

By passing piecemeal appropriations, you are legitimating this kind of tactic. It sets a precedent that allows for small groups of ideologues to hold up the government over their quibbles. It's also not terribly productive to watch a bunch of incoherent strategists like the one's in the House play football with appropriations.

Ok I'm done here. I've explained this to you 4 times.

Edited Date: 3/10/13 07:08 (UTC)

From:

cheezyfish.livejournal.com

Re-read what I wrote. The Senate passed something that would pass both chambers by majority.

I get it, however the house speaker typically follows the majority of the majority rule when it comes to bringing bills to a vote. It isn't like they can't force the bill to a vote. They can, just those minority of Republicans that would vote yes would have to sign a discharge petition, which I doubt would happen.

This is why many people like Representative King and even fucking Grover Norquist are criticizing Cruz and his allies in the Congress over their lack of a coherent strategy post-shutdown. And they 100% could fund all politically popular items, and hold less popular items hostage by attaching a gutting of Obamacare to the segmented portions. This gives them exactly what they want without them conceding a damn thing.

So, the Democrats are refusing kids cancer treatment and federal parks are being forced to close for political tools against Republicans. I get it, the Democrats have political motivation to make the shutdown hurt worse than it has to, because they can't negotiate. It doesn't change the fact that they are.

From:

dexeron.livejournal.com

Yea, keep blaming the Democrats for what the Republicans did.

It's like when Hans Gruber was holding everyone hostage in the Nakatomi tower. He threatened to kill Harry Ellis unless John McClane gave up the detonators. McClane knew that giving up the detonators might temporarily save Ellis, but would almost certainly lead to his own death, and probably everyone else's - and most likely wouldn't end up saving Ellis anyway. So he refused, and Gruber shot Ellis.

You are blaming John McClane for Ellis' death. Yes, in this conversation, you are fucking Dwayne T. Robinson, the Deputy Chief of Police.

From:

malasadas.livejournal.com

From:

yes-justice.livejournal.com

Well put.

From:

cheezyfish.livejournal.com

It's like...

Oh my GOD. It's like die hard, its like beating your wife, it's like blah blah. I don't give a shit (I do however care about children with cancer, unlike Reid). It is what it is.

Republicans: 'shutdown the government.'

Democrats: 'look, you can't get into national parks, kids are dying of cancer, the VA will fall apart, and it's all the Republicans fault!,'

Republicans: 'lets fund those separately to help limit the pain of the shutdown!'

Democrats: "We need to veto the shit outta that, because we wanna be able to blame them for it so we can pressure them to get a full CR through and discourage future attempts like this"

That is exactly what it is. You can describe some stupid analogy for diehard, but it doesn't explain it any better than those three short statements. You can argue that Democrats are right in doing so, you can argue that Republicans shouldn't have shutdown the government in the first place, which is what everyone is trying to argue but then pretend like Democrats aren't using those things for political gain. Hell, I'm not even arguing that Republican's were right to shutdown the government, nor have I presented an argument that the Democrats are wrong to not allow smaller spending bills, although I think its a bit silly to say you are concerned about these things and then in the same breath say that Democrats shouldn't fund them during the shutdown without a full CR. I'm just presenting facts, and I'm bombarded with this stupid analogy bullshit. You should feel embarrassed.

THE BOTTOM LINE:

If you feel like its acceptable to not allow small spending bills to fund the NPS, the NIH, and the VA during the shutdown so the Republicans feel political pressure to end the shutdown, then fine. But stop pussyfooting around it and pretend that you are concerned with those things, because you aren't. You are more concerned with making sure the ACA is untouched by the CR and you are delighted at being able to blame Republicans for any and all pain caused by the shutdown.

And BTW, your analogy is fully fucking stupid and doesn't make any bit of sense, nor could it possibly have any relation to the shutdown. Don't get those kids their cancer treatments like the Republicans demand... because you know, the Republicans are going to kill all of them anyways! NO NEGOTIATION WITH TERRORIST FUCK YA.

Edited Date: 3/10/13 17:30 (UTC)

From:

yes-justice.livejournal.com

Fair enough to hold the dems in contempt, but in doing so you give red team an undeserved pass.

The sympathy you show the republicans for 'shutdown the government' is not matched by the hatred you show to the democrats for saying "hey that's abusive".

You are basically apologizing for red teams abusive behavior.

And if the dems were holding the governement hostage over the Iraq invasion or something, I doubt you would demand red team bend.

Edited Date: 3/10/13 17:37 (UTC)

From:

notmrgarrison.livejournal.com

Unlike Obamacare, there was wide bipartisan and public support for the Iraq invasion. You will not a comparable example of a large unpopular program being rammed through Congress as Obamacare was (except maybe the stimulus).

From:

telemann.livejournal.com

LOL @ 'rammed.'

It was debated endlessly, lots of compromises, passed and signed by the President, then challenged in several federal courts and finally the Supreme Court. You get NOTHING!

LOL @ "unpopular program"

Except when you take the name "Obama" out of it, or list specific things in the bill, those same polls show a dramatic increase in support:

And polls? Really? Sure you want to argue about regarding polls showing new gun control laws that have overwhelming support? Really?

Edited Date: 3/10/13 18:31 (UTC)

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You had one f-ing job.....

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