[identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19609945

Angry protesters have staged sometimes violent anti-Japanese demonstrations in cities across China, amid escalating tensions over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

In Beijing, protesters threw stones and bottles and tried to breach a barricade manned by riot police.

There were reports of protests in at least 11 other cities.


I think the BBC is downplaying just how bad the situation is. Japanese sources (unsurprisingly) have been more willing to show Chinese mobs going on looting sprees. Such as here: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/world/news/20120915-OYT1T00813.htm  Though to be fair looting department stores seems more like the Chinese taking cues from the British of a few years ago by taking political protests as a chance to smash and steal things.

On the other hand, setting Japanese factories on fire and attacking Japanese people on the street seems to be just good old fashioned nationalistic hate. Of course it's worth nothing that the Chinese government is being remarkably slow to roll out the tanks. And some cynical souls have even suggested they're not doing that to give the public someone to vent their anger on besides the government in the face of upcoming elections. Elections where I'm sure China's dispute with Japan won't be mentioned at all.

So there you go, folks. The Chinese government is happy to stand by and let people riot and loot in the streets just to make an election easier. And you thought attack ads were bad.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 05:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
They have long-standing resentments, I'm not that shocked. Japan is pretty much hated throughout Asia for reasons I don't at all understand. My Korean Tae Kwon Do teachers even named a form after the Korean who assassinated the Japanese Governor-General who had control over Korea.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 06:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
Yeah I know! Why they no like the people who make such
beautiful anime, manga, and metal?

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 07:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Japan is pretty much hated throughout Asia for reasons I don't at all understand.

It might have something to do with a little known time known as World War II.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 08:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] root-fu.livejournal.com
It stems back to world war II and earlier.

During wwII Japan had something like 200,000 - 400,000 korean women working as prostitutes to japanese soldiers, IIRC. Lookup something called the teishintai corps. Add whatever assorted war crimes and such I can't remember occurred within the same era.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 12:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
That would be things like the Rape of Nanking, a gruesome orgy of slaughter that lasted for six weeks and included some rather nightmarish sexualized forms of violence and using POWs for target practice, things like the Unit 731 that did everything from spiking human kidneys with horse urine to deliberately infecting people with germs like anthrax. Predominantly Chinese people, I might add. Not to mention likewise the vivisections.....

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 12:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
They're hated for the simple reason that they were a colonial empire in the region and for things like the Rape of Nanking and the bombing of Chungking. Japan's estimated to have been responsible for the death of 30 million Chinese during the timeframe 1937-45.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] di-glossia.livejournal.com
I'm always kind of confused as to why Italy has mostly redeemed itself but Germany and Japan are stuck with the stigma of their WWII actions. Italy did some terrible things in Libya and Yugoslavia.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 20:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
Japan is not nearly as reviled as Germany either, despite doing a few things to their prisoners that at least matches Germany as far as nastiness goes, without perhaps the numbers Germany has.

It's a hard thing to judge, does not being as bad as the other make one any better?
Edited Date: 16/9/12 20:35 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 20:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] di-glossia.livejournal.com
I've noticed that. Though some of that may have to do with the fact that popular culture and media has made at least Americans (especially interesting as the Americans were attacked by the Japanese and fought against all three belligerents on their home turfs) fully aware that they fought a war against the Germans and that the NSDAP committed horrible atrocities against, among others, the Jewish people but largely glosses over the war in the Pacific and mostly focuses on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when Japan is mentioned in light of WWII. Of course, the Americans did horrible things, but it's very interesting that Nazis have become a symbol of evil in the US and not the Empire of Japan or the Italian Social Republic.

Certainly not but the world is overly focused on actions that occured seventy years ago. It would be better to admit it was all a horrible affair, learn from it, and not continue to guilt countries whose populations are largely too young to have had any part in it.
Edited Date: 16/9/12 20:57 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 21:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Again, Dugout Doug executed only the Japanese generals that beat him or psychologically and militarily schooled his sorry ass in the war and let most of the most monstrous Japanese war criminals go free. It's worth noting that the USA also neglects even the UK's role in WWII, let alone the USSR's, admittedly in the latter case due to the dilemma that militarily only one Ally learned how to actually fight land battles, and it was the Soviet Union and this creating all manner of propaganda issues best served by omitting it altogether and relying on the self-serving lies of Germany's generals.

Italy, of course, had a joke army and its role in WWII in general is neglected by Allied historians despite that fighting there lasted up to V-E Day, including a civil war, some of the largest-scale German barbarities outside of Eastern/Central Europe, and the WWII version of the Western Front of WWI. That the Soviets, despite equally gruesome individual battles cleared a region the size of France when the Allies were stopped cold by Kesselring in the Monte Cassino region had more than a little to do with this in terms of the actual picture of WWII for the same reasons mentioned above.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 21:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Blame Dugout Doug for that one.

(no subject)

Date: 17/9/12 03:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
Japan is not nearly as reviled among folks who speak English as Germany. Fixed that for you.

There isn't much animosity against the Germans here in China, but, well, check out the OP. When the Greeks might dress up Mrs. Merkel as a Nazi in effigy, they symbolism makes for easily understood stories in the West. It takes a riot for the Chinese to make the news. I’m surprised by how relevant the Japanese crimes from WWII are to today’s relations. Remember a couple of years ago when the circle in the Shanghai World Trade Center needed to change to a trapezoid because a circle in a Japanese building was a symbol of imperialism? Every year the Japanese leaders either visit or don’t visit the Yasukuni Shrine, either way, it makes the news. Beijing has an Anti-Japanese Museum, a 100,000 square foot museum dedicated to the atrocities committed by the Japanese during WWII. This was opened 50 years after the beginning of hostilities, just in case you’re thinking such sentiments have waned over time.

It’s an easy appeal to populism, there aren’t any pro-Japanese folks here and it’s not like the Japanese can defend their history of aggression.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 21:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Because the Italians were the most sorry-ass motherfuckers in the Axis ranks and also had a 2-year span of WWII where they were in a civil war of extremely lethal proportions caused by Italy trying to leave the Axis and the USA and UK fucking up landing in mainland Italy after the fact? The attempts leave the Axis reflecting that Italian divisions were primarily a joke army in the first place?

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 20:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
"Japan is pretty much hated throughout Asia for reasons I don't at all understand."

I have to wonder how much of this has to do with their imperial days.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 06:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
Just wanted to point out that, at least among the anarchists,
the looting in protests in Britain was a conscious act of
economic warfare against the corporatocracy as well as an attempt
to liberate reasources to be used freely by the lower class. Not mere opportunistic
criminality.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 07:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
Wow, you found a way to justify stealing.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 08:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
No. Stealing is what the government justifies as taxation, what corporations call
private property, capital and intellectual property, and what militaries call occupation.

I was referring to liberation and expropriation from the elite and their states and corporations
and its free use by the people from whose labors most everything is produced.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 08:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
And as I said, you found a way to justify stealing.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 18:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com
Liberate that big screen TV!

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 20:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
That's a risky thing anymore, some of them don't have any of the resale value they once had.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 21:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
I dont see a use for such a thing other than perhaps setting it up somewhere to shown informative video projects to the public.

(no subject)

Date: 17/9/12 20:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Stalin believed the same thing and in fact did the real work of revolution instead of sitting in a cafe in Geneva speechifying.

(no subject)

Date: 17/9/12 21:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
Stalin was a fucking dictator, not a liberator. Its called hypocrisy.

(no subject)

Date: 17/9/12 22:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
He was an expropriator from the merciless oppressor of the Russian masses and one of the very few Bolsheviks to manage to consistently be involved in revolutionary activities in Russia during the entire span of his lifetime. This is no small part of the reason why ol' Pornstache became the Vohdz and most of his rivals, real and imagined (the latter far more numerous the former) became corpses.

(no subject)

Date: 17/9/12 23:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
As Mikhail Bakunin warned, all the Russian people got was to exchange one master for another; whether Tsar or Stalin matters little.

(no subject)

Date: 18/9/12 12:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Lenin was a Stalin who died of complications from a failed assassination attempt. Had he lived longer, the USSR would have developed in much the same way as it did historically, a brief NEP interlude and then the appearance of full-scale totalitarianism, collectivization, and the amassing of a giant mechanized force in preparation for Round II with the Germans.

(no subject)

Date: 18/9/12 23:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
No argument from me.

(no subject)

Date: 18/9/12 10:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
Very true. Also when they start trying to temper radical
elements.

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 19:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
How dare you speak for the anarchists of Briton!


Speak for none but thyself!

(no subject)

Date: 16/9/12 12:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
This.........will not end well.

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