[identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Until quite recently, the word "homophobia" seemed like an oxymoron to me. I had no sense of how deep the fear actually runs. In fact, I considered it to be a self-referential fear such as the fear of being discovered. People who attack homosexuals are themselves latent homosexuals who fear that others will find them out. Although there may be some truth in this interpretation of the term, it misses a whole body of fear that I knew nothing about until recently.

The Icarus phenomenon of Jason Russell's meltdown prompted me to look more deeply into the involvement of Christian bigots in Uganda. The campaign of Invisible Children to pressure the Obama administration into retaining military advisers in that country reminded me of recent news of American fundamentalist ties to attempts to legitimatize de facto violence against homosexuals in that beleaguered land. I was reminded of how homosexuals in Africa fear being subjected to the vicious treatment of "necklacing" with a burning tire.

My quest for information took me to the work of Jeff Sharlet who became famous for his work exposing the fundamentalist mafia in Washington. Sharlet interviewed Ugandan homophobes to determine the depth of their ties to the Washington mob and to get a handle on the nature of their bigotry. What he found in the former case is that the Washington group has very strong ties to Ugandan homophobes. In the latter case, he found an intellectual basis for bigotry in a thin tome entitled The Pink Swastika by Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. It is an eye-opening view into the minds of people who fear homosexuality more than homosexuals fear fundamentalism. Until I read the book, I did not think that was possible.

The authors use evidence of sadistic homosexuals at the highest levels of the German national socialist movement to imply that national socialism is a product of homosexuality. They go so far as to imply that the liberal attitude toward homosexuality within the Weimar Republic gave rise to national socialism. They add two and two together to come up with the number three: freedom for homosexuals leads to death camps for Jews.

The most remarkable aspect of their work is that they provide sufficient evidence for a counter argument, but fail to pay any attention to that evidence. They show that the sadists who perpetrated atrocities were merely a fraction of the homosexual population and what these sadists shared with the authors: a contempt for other homosexuals. They also showed that some homosexuals react violently when they are abused, yet they would have their audience abuse homosexuals. Lively and Abrams make Jonah Goldberg appear downright liberal.

Do you fear homosexuals or homosexuality itself? Why or why not?

BTW, Here is a video that ties Jason Russell's organization to the Washington group:

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 04:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
People who attack homosexuals are themselves latent homosexuals who fear that others will find them out. Although there may be some truth in this interpretation of the term

There isn't any truth to it.


I've met several people who were extremely homophobic until them came out.

The fear aspect is not widespread.

Bullshit. Folks are scared that faggot will molest their children, ruin the sanctity of marriage, and corrupt their sons.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 07:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Folks are scared that faggot will molest their children, ruin the sanctity of marriage, and corrupt their sons.

This used to be true, but hasn't been true for a while now.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 07:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Prop 8 won in my state.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 13:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com
that's a load of bull. read an anti-gay forum sometime.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 20:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Online forums certainly do skew people's view of what's common.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 20:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com
passive-aggressive swipes aside, you really should read the anti-gay rhetoric out there before making outrageous claims like the one above.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 14:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
you must be joking.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 20:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
I don't know how you are gauging how many people embrace the book. I can see that it's pretty far down on Amazon's list (#2,261,911) and half of the reviews are negative, so even of the people that have read it, at least half don't agree with it.

(no subject)

Date: 11/4/12 21:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com
one of the first comments on this very post contains those hateful ideas, ffs

(no subject)

Date: 12/4/12 09:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
No it doesn't. The closest it comes is that he mentions morality and family values in some vague reference. Nothing about molesting children, or ruining marriage, or corrupting sons. If you're calling someone expressing a dislike of being around X as actually being hate of X, then I would say you're being overly judgmental.

(no subject)

Date: 13/4/12 17:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
So where in that first thread is that happening?

(no subject)

Date: 14/4/12 17:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
That's what's being referenced here (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1416248.html?thread=113275192#t113275192).

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com - Date: 16/4/12 20:32 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 12/4/12 15:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fornikate.livejournal.com
if they don't think that's what queers do, why would they be worried about 'morality' or 'family values'?

you're being silly.

If you're calling someone expressing a dislike of being around X as actually being hate of X

didn't say that.

(no subject)

Date: 12/4/12 23:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
if they don't think that's what queers do, why would they be worried about 'morality' or 'family values'?

Because same-sex relations is immoral and contrary to being part of a traditional family. It's pretty simple really.

didn't say that.

Looked like it.

(no subject)

Date: 13/4/12 17:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
If morality is up to the society then your objection here doesn't matter.

(no subject)

Date: 14/4/12 17:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Therefore what is being called immoral by someone can be considered to actually be immoral for them, and not simply the product of hate, unless there is some other evidence for it.

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods

DAILY QUOTE:
"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)
"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)
"Let me get my Bid Coins and I'll be there in a minute." (asthfghl)

May 2025

M T W T F S S
   12 3 4
56 78 91011
12 13 1415 161718
19202122 232425
26 272829 3031 

Summary