Südtirol wants out!?
11/3/12 16:55![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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talkpoliticsAh, Tyrol. That highland of long white socks, short pants, curled mustaches, broad hats with feathers in them, big Alp-horns, Jodler songs, and beer... Lots of beer!
Just when you thought Europe is all about being "united in diversity", Unions, unified currency, no borders, and shared values, comes this...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,819430,00.html
"Many in northern Italy have long wanted to secede. Now, the euro crisis is giving the separatist movement new momentum, with the rich north unwilling to pony up for the poor south. Prime Minister Monti's efforts to exert control may be making matters worse."
South Tyrol is feeling slighted and is getting pissed with Italy, and they want out. Well, at least some of them. They've even set a price tag to their "complete freedom" (as if such a thing exists). 15 billion euros. A nice bail-out for Italy, you'd say. Well, not nearly enough to deal with Italy's problems, but still. The very fact the idea exists and is gaining supporters, speaks a lot.
How about an EU consisting of 47 (or 57) countries rather than 27. And why would that matter, since it's gradually going towards further integration? Weird Euros, indeed.
Actually the people of South Tyrol have always been pretty ambivalent about what they want exactly. Just theoretically, they have 3 options, if they're to secede. 1) Being part of Austria, 2) staying part of Italy, or 3) complete sovereignty.
Culturally and historically most of them are Austrian, no doubt about it. But at the moment they have such a broad autonomy within Italy that I doubt Austria would ever grant them. And that brings a lot of benefits. South Tyrol is one of the most prosperous parts of Italy. And because of that autonomy, much of that wealth stays in South Tyrol, it doesn't go away to bail out the lazy southerners or something. Practically 90% of the taxes the South Tyrolese pay are staying there. And oh, do they have a vibrant economy, and great tourism (they're in the middle of the Alps, after all). And almost all of that money stays in their pocket. Vienna would've never agreed to such an arrangement. That's probably the main reason why the separatist idea has never held much ground there, although almost no one in Rome speaks German (or its Tyrolese variation anyway). Until now, that is.
So much about scenarios #1 & #2 then. And what about the 3rd one? Up till now the official argument has always been that South Tyrol is just too small to be independent. A thing the Liechtensteiner would giggle at, surely. But think about it - in an Europe without borders and in the middle of an increasingly globalized world, we begin to realize that size doesn't really matter that much any more (pun unintended). Besides, they have HUGE Alp-horns! Just look at the pic above, okay?
The bolded part in the 1st paragraph is deliberate. The separatist argument mostly gets fueled at times of crisis, when the economic discrepancies between the various regions are manifested more distinctly. And Italy is a country of huge discrepancies: between the developed North and the backward South, and between Südtirol and the rest. Additionally, given the general sense of crisis that's being used by some big interests for re-arranging the world order (starting with the Great Powers, then the emerging economies, the double standards in the rules of the international "game", and reaching the Arab spring and the transformations in Asia, the upcoming auonomy referendum in Scotland, the looming collapse of the Euro-zone, etc etc), people start to get the feeling that we're at the threshold of a major transformation, and this is somehow a window of opportunity for separatists to test the viability of their agenda yet again (think about Belgium again if you will).
Although 60% of the South Tyrolese people are still saying they're content with the current state of affairs. But the remaining 40% is not a small number at all, and that's a thing to consider. It's just that those 40% are still "too" moderate in their stance, and they don't exactly feel like playing an all-or-nothing game just yet.
But on the other hand, things often tend to change pretty drastically over a surprisingly short period of time, and given the deteriorating trust in the current form of democracy, mass perceptions getting swayed like a whim is a factor that's not to be underestimated. I'm not saying anyone in East Europe has started begging for communism to return of course (save for some loons in Russia and maybe Belarus), and South Tyrol is not exactly Chechnya or Kosovo, but yeah. People are people everywhere, and they tend to have similar reactions to similar situations. At least we're not talking of Libya or Syria, where this kind of stuff usually gets sorted out through bloodshed.
(Btw has anyone wondered how come the "Y" in Syria is on the first syllable, and the "Y" in Libya is on the second one? Weird Arabs...)
There's an interesting Austrian TV series about South Tyrolese separatism, it's called Verlorene Heimat (Lost Fatherland). It's quite illuminating about the mentality of those people and the reasons behind their distinct approach to statehood and their place in the world. Tyrol is a different culture from Italy, that's for sure. And Südtirol's fate is yet another example of the consequences of arbitrary map redrawing that happened during and between the World Wars. A lesson worth noting, IMO.
A slightly side question... Would a conspiracy theory hold water if it sounded like this? -->
"For the new global elites, having big nation states around is an obstacle to their plan of global domination and controlling vast numbers of people through globalism and the smearing of national borders. This is why regionalism and chopping things into pieces is being encouraged these days, and that is a paradox that runs counter to the presumably cosmopolitan agenda that is being proclaimed far and wide. We're talking of regionalism and provincialism making up a new pattern of a global world order, where a few big players are able to control all the rest through the Divide And Rule principle".
<-- I recently heard something like that on the radio, coming from a guy who's generally considered a tinfoil-hat wacko around here, but still? Truth or lunacy?
Just when you thought Europe is all about being "united in diversity", Unions, unified currency, no borders, and shared values, comes this...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,819430,00.html
"Many in northern Italy have long wanted to secede. Now, the euro crisis is giving the separatist movement new momentum, with the rich north unwilling to pony up for the poor south. Prime Minister Monti's efforts to exert control may be making matters worse."
South Tyrol is feeling slighted and is getting pissed with Italy, and they want out. Well, at least some of them. They've even set a price tag to their "complete freedom" (as if such a thing exists). 15 billion euros. A nice bail-out for Italy, you'd say. Well, not nearly enough to deal with Italy's problems, but still. The very fact the idea exists and is gaining supporters, speaks a lot.
How about an EU consisting of 47 (or 57) countries rather than 27. And why would that matter, since it's gradually going towards further integration? Weird Euros, indeed.
Actually the people of South Tyrol have always been pretty ambivalent about what they want exactly. Just theoretically, they have 3 options, if they're to secede. 1) Being part of Austria, 2) staying part of Italy, or 3) complete sovereignty.
Culturally and historically most of them are Austrian, no doubt about it. But at the moment they have such a broad autonomy within Italy that I doubt Austria would ever grant them. And that brings a lot of benefits. South Tyrol is one of the most prosperous parts of Italy. And because of that autonomy, much of that wealth stays in South Tyrol, it doesn't go away to bail out the lazy southerners or something. Practically 90% of the taxes the South Tyrolese pay are staying there. And oh, do they have a vibrant economy, and great tourism (they're in the middle of the Alps, after all). And almost all of that money stays in their pocket. Vienna would've never agreed to such an arrangement. That's probably the main reason why the separatist idea has never held much ground there, although almost no one in Rome speaks German (or its Tyrolese variation anyway). Until now, that is.
So much about scenarios #1 & #2 then. And what about the 3rd one? Up till now the official argument has always been that South Tyrol is just too small to be independent. A thing the Liechtensteiner would giggle at, surely. But think about it - in an Europe without borders and in the middle of an increasingly globalized world, we begin to realize that size doesn't really matter that much any more (pun unintended). Besides, they have HUGE Alp-horns! Just look at the pic above, okay?
The bolded part in the 1st paragraph is deliberate. The separatist argument mostly gets fueled at times of crisis, when the economic discrepancies between the various regions are manifested more distinctly. And Italy is a country of huge discrepancies: between the developed North and the backward South, and between Südtirol and the rest. Additionally, given the general sense of crisis that's being used by some big interests for re-arranging the world order (starting with the Great Powers, then the emerging economies, the double standards in the rules of the international "game", and reaching the Arab spring and the transformations in Asia, the upcoming auonomy referendum in Scotland, the looming collapse of the Euro-zone, etc etc), people start to get the feeling that we're at the threshold of a major transformation, and this is somehow a window of opportunity for separatists to test the viability of their agenda yet again (think about Belgium again if you will).
Although 60% of the South Tyrolese people are still saying they're content with the current state of affairs. But the remaining 40% is not a small number at all, and that's a thing to consider. It's just that those 40% are still "too" moderate in their stance, and they don't exactly feel like playing an all-or-nothing game just yet.
But on the other hand, things often tend to change pretty drastically over a surprisingly short period of time, and given the deteriorating trust in the current form of democracy, mass perceptions getting swayed like a whim is a factor that's not to be underestimated. I'm not saying anyone in East Europe has started begging for communism to return of course (save for some loons in Russia and maybe Belarus), and South Tyrol is not exactly Chechnya or Kosovo, but yeah. People are people everywhere, and they tend to have similar reactions to similar situations. At least we're not talking of Libya or Syria, where this kind of stuff usually gets sorted out through bloodshed.
(Btw has anyone wondered how come the "Y" in Syria is on the first syllable, and the "Y" in Libya is on the second one? Weird Arabs...)
There's an interesting Austrian TV series about South Tyrolese separatism, it's called Verlorene Heimat (Lost Fatherland). It's quite illuminating about the mentality of those people and the reasons behind their distinct approach to statehood and their place in the world. Tyrol is a different culture from Italy, that's for sure. And Südtirol's fate is yet another example of the consequences of arbitrary map redrawing that happened during and between the World Wars. A lesson worth noting, IMO.
A slightly side question... Would a conspiracy theory hold water if it sounded like this? -->
"For the new global elites, having big nation states around is an obstacle to their plan of global domination and controlling vast numbers of people through globalism and the smearing of national borders. This is why regionalism and chopping things into pieces is being encouraged these days, and that is a paradox that runs counter to the presumably cosmopolitan agenda that is being proclaimed far and wide. We're talking of regionalism and provincialism making up a new pattern of a global world order, where a few big players are able to control all the rest through the Divide And Rule principle".
<-- I recently heard something like that on the radio, coming from a guy who's generally considered a tinfoil-hat wacko around here, but still? Truth or lunacy?
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 15:47 (UTC)2. See how the evil shadow of the war still hovers o'er the world.
3. The South Tyroleans remind me of the crazy idiots in Texas who talk about seceding now and then.
4. Technically, "Syria" and "Libya" aren't Arabic words at all. They're of very ancient Greek origin. So, blame the Greeks! They stole all the Phoenicians greatest ideas anyway. :P
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 16:05 (UTC)The name Syria is Latinized from the Greek Συρία.
Libya: from Ancient Greek Λιβύη (Libyē). Spelled Libua by Plautus, Libya in Pliny and Cicero.
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 17:17 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 17:42 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 21:35 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 21:37 (UTC)(Also it's the root of the word "bugger!")
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 21:45 (UTC)fundepraved stuff.(no subject)
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Date: 11/3/12 18:12 (UTC)2) Israel-Palestine would be the most triumphant example of that. That was all WWI, WWII was just an incidental detail Israel later Retconned into its founding myth because that was so much simpler a story.
4) Yah, and Libya was a conglomeration of Tripolitana and Cyrenaica. Blame the Italians for this one, they created Libya 101 years ago......
(no subject)
Date: 11/3/12 17:08 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 11/3/12 19:03 (UTC)Ha, they're too busy making good music and drinking good beer to fight a civil war, so YAY!
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