[identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-signs-defense-bill-despite-reservations-200818531.html

^That One BilllTM is now law. The President expressed severe reservations about it but still signed it into law anyway. To me if he really expressed reservations about it and did not want to object to it becoming law he could simply have refused to sign it or to return it and thus let it become law without his signature. Signing it indicates President Obama's objections to this as a law are a mite bit.....hypocritical. I also think that the practice of including provisions like this in bills where the overall thing includes other, necessary actions is one reason why there should be a constitutional amendment to permit a line-item veto. I also view the further extension of the government's coercive power since the first attempt at a Patriot Act in the 1990s to be a deplorable and worrying trend and hope we can all agree on that much. Your thoughts?

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 22:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
Deplorable, worrying and I'm wondering if there's anyone in government who gives a damn about rights or due process anymore.
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Date: 1/1/12 00:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com
When a better option comes along that can beat a Republican ticket or the entire voting structure is rebuilt to allow tiered choices.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 01:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
1) keep voting for the lesser evil
2) Support legislation that will alter our voting structure to allow more alternatives than the right leaning corporatists and the other party that's even more right wing.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 02:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
I predict 2016.

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 22:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
Time to get those Nader/Kusinich 2012 bumper stickers working.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 23:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
I guess voting for your conscience counts for something.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 23:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
Alexander will be lucky to get >1% of a national vote in 2012.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 23:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
As I said, voting your conscience counts for something.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 02:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
Yeah, the vast improvement in international relations, pull out in Iraq, end to "don't ask, don't tell" and death of Bin Laden has totally sucked.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 04:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jerseycajun.livejournal.com
It's the only thing that counts.

Restated: Is it my fault the lesser evil lost for not voting for him, or is it everyone else who voted for the lesser evil's fault for not voting for my third party candidate?

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 00:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
Image (http://media.photobucket.com/image/jon stewart/nerdtastic1227/jon_stewart.jpg?o=5)Image (http://media.photobucket.com/image/jason alexander/ajithrockscc/colors/Jason-Alexander.jpg?o=1)

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 02:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
The American people electing Jews to the Oval Office? Surely you jest!

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 04:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kardashev.livejournal.com
Hey, I'll vote for a Jew. After all, America hasn't had much success lately with gentiles.

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 23:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
Still shifting for the Republicans, I see. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 05:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dv8nation.livejournal.com
Palpatine? Pfft. I got ya beat. http://www.cracked.com/video_18344_a-surprisingly-plausible-republican-candidate.html

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 06:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
Plus, the new orbital battle station will offer all sorts of employment.
Edited Date: 1/1/12 06:00 (UTC)

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Date: 1/1/12 06:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terminator44.livejournal.com
For the Emperor!

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 22:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Yup (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1263590.html).

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 01:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Dude that was mostly a rant. :-)

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 23:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] musicpsych.livejournal.com
I was glad to see this quote: "My administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens," Obama said in the signing statement. "Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a nation." Of course, there's talk, and then there's action. We'll see what happens with that...

This is supposed to be the full signing statement: http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2011/12/31/obama-defense-bill-signing-statement/

(no subject)

Date: 2/1/12 18:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com
Me, too. Considering that was removed from the bill, I'm not exactly sure why people still have their panties in a twist.

(no subject)

Date: 3/1/12 04:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] musicpsych.livejournal.com
Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure about that. I think it's still part of the bill, but Obama just said that his administration wouldn't do anything with it. That might mean that a future administration can make use of it. I don't know...

(no subject)

Date: 3/1/12 18:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com
Yeah, I heard that last night, so that's an 'oops' on my part. He may say that now, but he's said a lot of things that he ended up going against later.

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/11 23:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
And you thought pepper-spraying was bad.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 01:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
how does one make the other more or less bad? do you believe in moral relativism?

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 02:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
Would you be indifferent between (a) someone lying to you, or (b) someone slitting your throat?

But, yeah, I was just enjoying some gallows humor. The whole situation stinks.

(no subject)

Date: 2/1/12 00:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
again one doesn't make another less bad.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 14:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eracerhead.livejournal.com
I do recall the president trying to close Gitmo, and meeting incredible resistance from congress and paranoid state governors.

There may be parts of the bill that are eventually declared unconstitutional, but he has to sign something to keep the military funded. It's called compromise.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 16:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terminator44.livejournal.com
That's a pretty big "maybe", since they can detain people in secret. A court can't challenge something if it doesn't know it's going on. The military is overfunded as it is. It can go without a bill for a few weeks if it means maintaining the Bill of Rights. Even if it is overturned, the fact that it was signed into law in the first place is a dark precedent for the country.

(no subject)

Date: 1/1/12 17:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
I hope at some point during the campaign, several people hit the President hard with questions about this law. I'm sure he'll just shake his head and say "No, let me tell you what the law really means."

(no subject)

Date: 2/1/12 17:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allhatnocattle.livejournal.com
Tooo many secrets. An open government is a lot more open.

(no subject)

Date: 3/1/12 04:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghoststrider.livejournal.com
I'm trying to figure out when exactly it is when the Implied Corollary to Godwin's Law is repealed and we can safely assume we've crossed into a Nazi state.

(no subject)

Date: 5/1/12 01:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
I was discussing the idea of a line-item veto for the president just the other day.

My objection is that it would give the president power to fuck over virtually any member of congress.

"Don't vote against my bill Senator/Representative X. If you do, I'll line-item veto everything you are trying to get for your state/district."

Isn't that sorta a substantial problem with such a kind of veto?

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