What do Prison Inmates and Children Have in Common?

[paft.livejournal.com]

As we know, Newt Gingrich, the current GOP frontrunner has doubled down on his idea of getting rid of all those dumb ol’ child labor laws and paying schoolkids to clean toilets and occasionally mop up vomit in the hallways.



He did amend it slightly from his earlier assertion that “Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school” . Now Gingrich presumably thinks it should involve just laying off some of those unionized janitors. And he has allowed on Curt Sliwa’s radio show, that “kids shouldn’t work in coal mines” or heavy industry.

It’s unclear from the articles quoting from the Sliwa interview whether Gingrich was saying that children should be legally barred from working in coal mines and heavy industry or that we should hope coal mine and factory employers would be nice guys and not hire kids. Since he’s referred to the child labor laws that got children out of mines and mills, as “truly stupid,” I’m going to choose Door Number Two.

At roughly the same time, we’ve learned that the state of Alabama is coping with the labor vacuum left by their draconian anti-illiegal immigrant laws by considering using convict labor instead.

Children, convicts… Both cases involves an essentially helpless, easily exploited work force. Neither kids nor prison inmates are likely to object in any meaningful way when they are overworked or forced into dangerous situations. Not like all those free, voting grown-ups who do things like organizing, striking, or even just speaking up for themselves.

And of course, we can all trust employers not to notice this and take advantage… right?

Now, a lot of people will point out that prison inmates are so much more unattractive than cute, innocent little kids. Fortunately, we have Rush Limbaugh to remind us that we shouldn’t be fooled by children, with their appealing little faces and sad, hungry eyes. They’re really just a bunch of “wanton little waifs and serfs dependant on the state.”

Rush Limbaugh: If you feed them, if you feed the children three square meals a day during the school year, how can you expect them to feed themselves in the summer?... Okay, the school ends, and of course, how can we expect them to feed themselves in the summer, when they haven’t had to for nine months. So this is how it works, they demand to be fed during the summer – or their acolytes demand that they be fed during the summer. Because after all, we’ve conditioned them to not feeding themselves. Plus their parents don’t have to take responsibility of feeding them. And their parents don’t have to take responsibility of paying, not directly, for them to be fed. So, it’s just natural. “Mr. Limbaugh, these children are simply ill-equipped to feed themselves in the summertime, it’s the only compassionate thing we do!’ Yeah, who made that possible? You… by trying to make people helpless. Wanton little waifs and serfs dependant on the state. Pure and simple.

I mean really you give these things food during the school year, they’ll expect to be given food in the summertime too! Any good parent knows that you don’t feed the little beggars after the age of six, but send them out to forage for themselves. How else can they learn dumpster-diving?

In conclusion, for your viewing and listening pleasure – the Old Crow Medicine Show’s version of Woody Guthrie's, Union Maid.

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes

Comments

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Your first link doesn't work.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I don't see a difference between what Newt said, and what Japan does (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070318/26pitchin.htm). What difference do you see, other than his other politics?

And I think your sarcastic response to Rush's question does a great job of missing the point and avoiding answering the question.

[paft.livejournal.com]

g: What difference do you see, other than his other politics?


Newt is not talking about everyone, all teachers and all student, pitching in to clean the school. He's talking about poor kids being singled out to do it on the grounds that they are lazier and have less of a work ethic than other students.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I do. Japan's concept derives from Buddhism. Gingrich claims to be at least a champion of Christianity, so adopting the ways of a pagan philosophy would be a dubious basis at least for Gingrich's political religion to function.

[kayjayuu.livejournal.com]

Your hyperbole reminds me of my husband: "No, I don't do ANYTHING around the house, DO I?" From one extreme to the other.

I don't see how it would hurt anything to give students "ownership" of a space by giving them the responsibility to maintain and keep clean the area they spend a quarter to a third of their lives. Apparently, according to your post, paying them to do it, too. Whee, spending money and incentive to discourage your "friends" from defacing what you just cleaned up.

On the food issue, if parents aren't feeding their kids for whatever reason -- and yes, peanut butter sandwiches apply -- isn't that where the progressives send in CFS? Or is it just easier to provide everything a child needs from cradle to grave in one central location, ie, school?

Sorry, my sarcasm is showing at the end there, but I am sincere in asking the question.

[paft.livejournal.com]

k: Whee, spending money and incentive to discourage your "friends" from defacing what you just cleaned up.

And of course, we can all depend on their little "friends" not to ridicule and bully them when they notice that they qualify as "poor" kids who have to mop up vomit in the halls.

K: On the food issue, if parents aren't feeding their kids for whatever reason -- and yes, peanut butter sandwiches apply -- isn't that where the progressives send in CFS?

No. Progressives don't as a rule advocate removing kids from their parents custody because the parents are poor.

K:Or is it just easier to provide everything a child needs from cradle to grave in one central location, ie, school?

Speaking of hyperbole -- do you honestly see no middle ground between "providing everything a child needs from cradle to grave" to marching in and breaking up families because the parents have committed the "crime" of being poor?

cognitive dissonance much??

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Ignoring the fundamentally unethical notion of viewing people as Heideggerian standing reserves, I find it funny that conservatives simultaneously place so much emphasis on both some muddled notion of a Protestant work ethic and simultaneously justifying CEO compensation. A labor theory of value and marginalism simply are not coherent with one another. Of course neither are John Locke and Adam Smith's theories compatible with contemporary life, in part because of this firm grip the labor theory of value has on it as well as a deistic justification for social inequality. Maybe its time conservatives develop a new political philosophy that actually is coherent?

http://www.salon.com/writer/james_livingston/ This could be a good place to start

Re: cognitive dissonance much??

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

They could also start with the leisure theory of value (http://www.mib.org/~gunslngr/leisure.html) instead.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

Maybe kid janitors could figure out a way to get rid of that sweaty kid smell in elementary schools.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

This is Newt Gingrich, the most self-absorbed and hypocritical asshole of a bunch of solipsistic, hypocritical assholes. You expected him to be different?

[paft.livejournal.com]

This is also the current frontrunner of the Republic Party.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Solipsistic? You think that Gingrich, et al., deny the knowable existence of anyone but themselves?

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I don't think any janitors should be fired or laid off, but I'd love to see schools incorporate some kind of physical labor as punishment for vandalism of school property or even fighting. Out-of-school suspensions are a joke -- it's basically a vacation.

By the way, where have you been?

[paft.livejournal.com]

I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the antagonistic view of poor children that seems to be getting prevalent on the right.

I've been working. October and November are busy times if you work in events. It's slacked off slightly now.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Show people be excused from having to do any labor in their life?

[paft.livejournal.com]

No.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That's a fine example of going to Albuquerque when the discussion was heading to Atlanta. Might want to discuss what people are actually critiquing about what Gingrich said instead of a completely different topic.

[malakh-abaddon.livejournal.com]

RE to Paft and Mividaloca99:
I know many teenagers that take jobs to help support their family. It isn't by choice either, and they are often working the same piss poor jobs the mother is, since as it stands right now kids can't work coal. Do I have issues with children doing work as a form of punishment for bad behavior, not really, so long as it does not interfere with their education. But he wants them, according to his statement to work in the library, no time period given, help in the kitchen, no time period given, and cleaning up after lunch, during valuable class time. Major problem there.

Paft you brought up children being picked on, or bullied. That is a major concern for me. That concern is not something to be dismissed. Children are by their nature cruel, they have not learned compassion. It is not the fault of anyone, it is the way that our minds work.

We must always be concerned about what politicians start to do. In my view, everything is a slippery slope. It could start with poor children cleaning schools, and quickly morph into other things. I doubt Newt will win the GOP nod for the presidency. Even should he win, I doubt he will win against, any other candidate.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

I'm saddened that 19th century Dickensian conditions are being promoted as a good thing in the 21st century. Newt Gingrich is still a completely despicable person and his claim to have finally 'found' religion is even more despicable.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Dickensian conditions weren't "laboring". Dickensian conditions were "laboring in a shithole and not even earning enough to support yourself".

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

If one starts from the premise that the pourpose of public schools is to prepare children for employment Gingrich's proposal is perfectly rational.

[paft.livejournal.com]

Well first, no, schools aren't just employee factories. They're intended to teach skills far beyond just holding down a job. And second, there' nothing rational about Gingrich's nasty assumptions about the children of the poor.

[nyxelestia.livejournal.com]

Mixed views on the cleaning thing. Newt's particular plan, which is singling out a few kids to take over janitors full time, I'm opposed to, and I can understand the rage.

But if a school's entire student body is brought in to clean up on a regular basis regardless of background, then I fail to see the problem. Same goes for a school that employs cleaning as punishment for delinquent kids (which a LOT do).

[paft.livejournal.com]

This is about neither all students pitching in nor delinquents being punished.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Why is he even talking about this? Is there some problem he's solving? Is this one of those solutions looking for a problem? But hey, whatevs, lets just put adults out of work so they lose their work ethic too.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Slave labour isn't the problem. The problem is the chains leashed to them are too tight, the cages too small and the porridge too bland. They desrve better working conditions!

I prefer...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... cinnamon and raisins in my thin gruel.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Gingrich is the prime example of America having a short term memory. Just wait and all your character flaws and scandals just go away!

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

Children, convicts… Both cases involves an essentially helpless, easily exploited work force. Neither kids nor prison inmates are likely to object in any meaningful way when they are overworked or forced into dangerous situations. Not like all those free, voting grown-ups who do things like organizing, striking, or even just speaking up for themselves.

Children, helpless? Very true. Hey! Newt! Leave them kids alone!

Prisoners, helpless? Not necessarily. Especially the ones in a maximum security prison so it depends on the inmate. Sorry, but I'm not going to weep for a rapist or other violent offender being forced to do labor for the state.

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but I'm not going to weep for a rapist or other violent offender being forced to do labor for the state.

Good thing we have prisons filled with nothing but violent offenders!