[identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
http://www.kyivpost.com/news/opinion/op_ed/detail/114411/

The man who called the collapse of the USSR "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century" now looks determined to create a new empire. Yep, I'm talking about comrade Putin. The latest hint about that came from Putin's deputy prime minister Igor Shuvalov - he proposed the removal of the rouble and the creation of a new shared currency between Russia, Kazakhstan and Belarus.


In fact the re-integration between the three began way before that event. When they signed a mutual customs union it was just one in a series of steps in that direction. They're planning to create a common economic market until 2012. Shuvalov said he didn't rule out the possibility of the creation of a new currency because it was "the logical next step". He hinted it could be modeled after the euro. Which doesn't sound very nice but yeah. ;)

The last time these countries had a common currency was in Soviet times. Putin hurried to extend an invitation for joining the customs union to his new/old pal in Ukraine, Victor Yanukovich who's the pro-Russian heavyweight player in Kiev. If Ukraine agrees, that would create a new economic space spanning the "great four" among the former Soviet republics, now with a total population of 200+ million, stretching from the EU borders in the west to China in the east. Its political and economic center will of course be Moscow, where Putin is now on his way to retrieving the presidential post next year. He could keep it for another 12 years, can you imagine?

A big monetary union would give Putin additional economic influence and allow him to compete with the dollar and the euro by creating a strong reserve currency that would serve as an alternative to them (plus the yuan). His finance minister Alexey Kudrin said last month that Russia, who's the largest exporter of energy resources in the world, could soon begin selling oil for roubles. By the way that's what Saddam dared to do towards the end of his reign, and Chavez too - quitting the dollar as their primary trade currency. You know where I'm going with this. However, this is no Iraq and no Venezuela, it's Russia that we're talking about here.

Here are the implications from all this. A possible restoration of the regional union in some form different from the USSR (which is what Putin is trying to promote) is a factor that could give Russia the opportunity to boost its starting position in its struggle against its main two rivals - EU and China. Presently the Russian industry looks outdated in comparison to the European one, and the production is definitely more expensive than the Chinese because of the more expensive labour. And the time is approaching when it'll be a key source of energy and resources for both economies, so Russia should arrange its chess pieces well before the big game has begun.

Putin has no interest to compete for prices at the Kazakh and Ukrainian markets. And the rest of the former Soviet republics would find it hard to withstand the strong gravitational pull of a possible united currency and the presence of such a powerful economic entity in their vicinity - so they'd either have to join it or agree to enormous concessions. The Armenian economy is already almost entirely owned by Russian companies, neighbouring Azerbaijan is risking a Russian intervention in the frozen conflict over the Armenian enclave Nagorny-Karabakh (Russia has shown some iron balls towards Georgia already), and Kyrgyzstan is in deep crisis which urged them to ask for a vital bail-out package from Russia (somewhat above 2 billion $).

One would ask if the euro is the best possible proof that independent countries could co-exist within a single currency space. The problems the euro is having now could be an argument against creating another such common space to the east without having the proper structures in place beforehand. Probably the scenarios about the resurrection of the Soviet Union are still sounding like too much of a reach. Maybe so.

But on the other hand, although the Russian interventions in the former Russian satellites doesn't have analogues in the EU, Putin may've learned his lesson after the Orange Revolution in Ukraine. And he's now refraining from openly supporting Yanukovich before the February elections. Soon he'll have an opportunity to ensure reliable friendly regimes in both Belarus and Kazakhstan. Lukashenko's third term in Belarus is expiring next year and he'll have to demonstrate full loyalty if Putin turns out to be his only supporter among the big world leaders (highly likely).

This year Nursultan Nazarbayev is making 70 and he still doesn't have a clear heir-apparent in Kazakhstan. When his life-long term ends, Putin will surely be in a very nice position to influence the choice of his successor.

The readiness of the lesser Eurasian states to consider Russia's position about the creation of a new Eurasian alliance, with its own currency, and centered in Moscow, could be the price these countries will have to pay in return for their nominal sovereignty. Note the word "nominal". Because in practice, the economy dictates reality, and reality is that they'll never be entirely independent.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 14:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
Well, this is going to be a fun century.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 14:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
> The problems the euro is having now could be an argument against creating another such common space to the east without having the proper structures in place beforehand.

That's the key moment here. When a process is pushed artificially for (geo)political reasons (as opposed to happening gradually and naturally), without having the necessary framework to make it work properly, it's bound to show all sorts of problems. Of course Putin & Co. could try to shape this structure as they go, but that's the much harder option. But he may not have time now, because the pieces are already moving and the longer he waits, the worse position he'll have on the chessboard that you mentioned.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 15:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
If the Russians really do wind up creating a capitalist neo-USSR that effectively kills a punchlike I use in jokes. >.< That if is about the size of the Valles Marineris, albeit....

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 17:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Nope. Russia finding a way to reclaim that empire peacefully would require far more political savvy than the entire Russian leadership at the time being has. They retain the combination of coarseness and boorishness that works in Russia but can't be exported elsewhere without the Big Stick.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 16:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
The new currency's name will be Putins,a big chesty money with a lot of bravado and brawn!

Image

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 17:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Him and Sarah Palin were made for each other!

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Only when he's killed something.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 20:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meindampf.livejournal.com
Yes, he does.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 17:59 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 18:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Eh, if they want to peacefully integrate, it's probably best for them. With the EU, the US, and the well.. China... out there, it's not dumb.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Question is, who would let them do it just like that, without trying to prevent it through various means (like Orange Revolutions, Pink Revolutions, Rose Revolutions, Cotton Revolutions, etc). Knowing that Brzezinsky is whispering things into Obama's ears, could we see another New American Century strategy in the making?

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
There will probably be economic warfare on some level, there always is though. I doubt the US is currently in any place to stop them in a military manner though. And we shouldn't anyways.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
The Eurasians have always been at war with the Euros.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
I think that Putin is obliged to have a plan like this one if he doesn't want to be portrayed as a Brezhnev II and the man who let Russia lagging behind China and India.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
I think the one former Russian leader who's been labeled a loser the most is Gorbachev. Closely followed by Yeltsin. That tells a lot about their development in the years before Putin.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 19:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
I think we can agree he wasn't elected for his diplomacy skills.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 20:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
First, he was *se*lected by Yeltsin. His subsequent election is an exercise that Russian rulers have brought to perfection. Secondly, I'm not talking about diplomatic skills but the guts to take hard decisions and the expertise to actually know how to do it - like clearing the scene from Yeltsin's oligarchs and substituting them with his own pawns, thus actually gaining control over his own country. A thing any tyrant who wants to remain in power for more than a year would better consider doing.

(no subject)

Date: 10/10/11 20:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
Yes, of course.

And yet, I would be very curious to learn what Russians really think of Putin. It seems that they could be less impressed than we are (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1161669.html?thread=92194757#t92194757).

Besides, stagnation is Russia's pet peeve. Add to that a Putin who clings on to power...

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/11 14:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meindampf.livejournal.com
I've tried to answer your question in the main thread.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/11 05:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com
it's too large of a scale {too much land} to be successful. but because much of that land is rural, it might be sustainable at least for a little while.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/11 07:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
If Russia wants to play nice with its neighbors, that's all well and good, however my guess is that their chance of creating a new reserve currency is pretty low. Such a currency would be backed by Russia for all practical purposes. They defaulted in 1998 and their economy is propped up by oil, which is cyclical. Russian bonds are dollar denominated, rated BBB (two levels above junk) and yield about 1/2 percent above Mexico. This is not the makings of a reserve currency.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/11 14:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meindampf.livejournal.com
The "Eurasia thing" is Putin's new “propocondom” (propaganda-condom). The old one - fighting terror - seems worn out, since the number of terror attacks in Russia increased at least 5 times within the years 2000-2009 and yet 2 times between 2009-2011. The economy stagnates; the real estate is about 10 times more expensive as it normally should be. The oil prices are threatening to fall. Now there's a need for a fresh propocondom to pull on.

What the Russians think. My estimations are that if Mr. Medvedev were a decent man and if the elections were not a fraud, he could beat Putin by dragging the protesters' votes against him, even though Medvedev's approval ratings (both official and unofficial) are modest compared to Putin's. The protesters' popularity is far from overwhelming but it would suffice (similar to what could happen in Belarus). Though that's a virtual scenario, since Medvedev openly lies, recently reinforces the "gentlemen's agreement" with Putin to castle; the ruling party "United Russia" controls voting (substitute the results with their own arbitrary numbers), mass media and the magic black box called “GAS-Vybory” (state automated system), where all the votes get consolidated. The judges are dependant. Opposition parties are not registered. Not a single trial has been won so far but just one which was insignificant for them.

It should be admitted that the protesters are weak for certain reasons. There are two representative groups among them: democrats and nationalists. The democrats have shown themselves as amateur infants unable and unwilling to negotiate with each other. Some of them have been downgraded to semi democrats for collaboration with the Kremlin. Others are responsible for the chaos in the 90s and there’s a fear that they could lead to the abuse of power, the country’s fall apart and more blood. The nationalists are quite stupid and scary too. People feel insecure with both groups – the Kremlin’s got good cards to play on till the oil prices are high, other things being equal. That’s in short.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/11 09:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
Thank you for this very informative picture of Russian politics. I see only one solution : total boycott of the ballot.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/11 12:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
That would achieve what? The core fans of Putin will still propel him to power, possibly with 90% of the vote or something like that.

I heard an interesting idea around the BG forums recently. Go out and vote! But vote for some minor parties who have no chance to pass the 4% threshold. Or in case of the coming Municipal elections, they'll each have 1-2 members in the local parliament. This way none of the mainstream parties would have a chance to establish a stable majority, they'll have to negotiate, bargain, quarrel between themselves, and this will cause them pain. Something like what's happening in Belgium now, although the parallel is not very good. Still, the idea is to make them suffer. If you punch a hole in their pockets it's where it'll hurt them.

The other thing is voting for some parody party, like the Beer Party or something.

I may actually try that at the end of this month.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/11 15:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lai-choi-san.livejournal.com
90% of a tiny minority is hardly a basis of legitimacy (at present, the purpose of the making of an Eurasian Empire seems only to boost the votes).

As for voting for a minor or a parody party, if it works in Bulgaria, good ! :)
Sadly I am almost sure that, in Russia, Putin has already found a parry against that trick.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/11 15:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
I'm not sure Putin insists having "legitimacy" among the populace. If he can have the majority in the Duma and control all levers of power, he can have his throne until year 2315 and use that time to further brainwash his people into worshiping him as a demigod.

(no subject)

Date: 15/10/11 15:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meindampf.livejournal.com
Sadly I am almost sure that, in Russia, Putin has already found a parry against that trick.

Yes, he has: 7% barrier was created to prevent that minor parties get into parliament. All the mandates will be distributed among the majors, no matter whom you voted for. It also makes little sense to vote for one of the majors against the ruling party - it might slightly change the list of the stockholders - beneficiaries of the corporation, not the corporation itself.

Unfortunately there is no "winning strategy" as long as we speak about purely "how to act during the elections".

Out of reach, indeed.

Date: 15/10/11 07:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramsesthesecond.livejournal.com
All Russians that I have met in Sharm el Sheikh recall the USSR as one of their country's biggest mistakes. Satellite countries might agree to such unity but this won't be the case with those countries' populations. it seems that Putin didn't learn his lesson; he's forcing the new union on the average citizen in the major four countries, I don't know about Kazakhstan but I am sure lots of Ukrainians just hate the gut of Russia and look with yearning to Europe. Putin is forcing his union via supporting dictators who would give him anything he wishes just in exchange for his favor of supporting their reign. and the end will be a union of dictatorships, fortune directed mainly towards Russian billionaires and average people awaiting impatiently for the first opportunity to revolt.

After all Putin himself gained his seat through a funny little game.. a silly Mexican soap opera titled (And this is how Madonna ruled the earth:
(Putin -> Putin -> Medvedev -> Putin -> Putin -> Medvedev -> Putin -> Putin -> Medvedev -> Rasputin (ruling from the grave)-> Hilary Rodham Clinton -> Madonna!)
Tomorrow on (And this is how Madonna ruled the earth): Madonna takes Lady GaGa on her way to a new term in Kremlin.

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