"Do You, as a Candidate for President, Really Believe..."

[paft.livejournal.com]

Susan Grigsby, who lost her brother, Steve, to cancer: What really horrified me about the debate was not the poorly phrased question, it wasn’t Dr. Paul’s answer, and it wasn’t even the scream after Wolf Blitzer asked, ‘Would you let him die,’ and somebody in the audience yelled ‘Yeah!’ That wasn’t as horrifying as was the silence from the stage, from these men and women who are running for office, not a word. Nothing.

This is the reality of the right wing libertarian attitude toward the sick. It is vile. It is inhumane. It is unworthy of Americans.

The question posed by Susan Grigsby needs to be asked of every Republican candidate. "Do you, as a candidate for President, really believe that if an American cannot get, or does not get insurance, that they should be treated the way Steve was?"


When they don’t answer it it needs to be asked again. And again. And again. They cannot be allowed to evade it. They cannot be allowed to look the other way.

Republicans are already trying. Here’s Mitch McConnell when confronted with that clip from the debate and asked if it troubled him:

(Brief chuckle) Look, we have a lot of people running for president, there are going to be a lot of debates, a lot of things said, a lot of audience reactions, I don’t have a particular reaction to what’s going on in the Republican campaign for president right now.

The silence that horrified Susan Grigsby continues.

Prominent Republicans are afraid of coming out in favor of saving the lives of the sick and uninsured.

Comments

Re: Oh brother, is there no end to the disingeuousness of political animals?

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

So why does the fact that he was getting care at a county nursing home, presumably paid for by taxes "get under [your] skin?" -- The fact that her brother was getting care isn't what irks me. As usual, you're distorting my opinion. What irks me is she's blaming politicians for her problems when, gee, her brother was in a nursing home paid for, as you say "presumably", by taxpayer $$. So this isn't a situation of anyone "letting" her brother die except the douches in charge of his surgery.

Ascribing her very natural and understandable anger over this delay to personal guilt is a hell of a stretch. -- In your opinion.

Was she unable to get in to a doctor to check on her symptoms because she had no health insurance? Was her diagnosis and treatment significantly delayed because of this? -- She had insurance but still had to pay some out-of-pocket expenses. I already said that.

"Everyone?" Including tea partiers? including the people cheering on the idea of allowing the uninsured to die? -- I don't know, PAFT. Why don't you ask people who are part of the Tea Party. If you'd like me to be more specific in my description, I could always amend that to "If Obamacare is as good as Obama's lemmings say it is." Better?
P.S. -- A point already made several times in this room. The opinions of a few people do not represent an entire group/party. If that were the case, then this is the representation of every Democrat in the United States.

(http://i.imgur.com/jR20J.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/YWB2D.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/DReeP.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/UxDYS.jpg)

A better healthcare system that includes a public option. I'd also like some sign of common decency from the Republican "base," the people who have gone on record cheering deaths and mocking Parkinson's victims, but that's probably hoping for too much. -- If a public option were ever enacted, Steve would have been on the same path he was when he died -- waiting for surgery. Female breast cancer patients in countries with a fully government run health care system are denied some medications. As for common decency, no one's gonna kiss your rump or anyone else's because of comments made by a few idiots. That points already been made, so I wouldn't be holding out for any apologies anytime soon. And here's a hint -- you get respect and decency when you give respect and decency. You should know that by now...

Re: Oh brother, is there no end to the disingeuousness of political animals?

[paft.livejournal.com]

paft: So why does the fact that he was getting care at a county nursing home, presumably paid for by taxes "get under [your] skin?" -- The fact that her brother was getting care isn't what irks me. As usual, you're distorting my opinion. What irks me is she's blaming politicians for her problems when, gee, her brother was in a nursing home paid for, as you say "presumably", by taxpayer $$.

I'll point this out one more time.

Her brother's cancer might very well have been more treatable if he'd been able to get to a doctor who diagnosed it in time. That's really what she's mad about.

And if the conditions in that nursing home were such that it was as she describes, I think she has reason to complain.

mvl: So this isn't a situation of anyone "letting" her brother die except the douches in charge of his surgery.

Except for a lil' ol thing like that?

How about a healthcare system that allowed it to happen and politicians like Ron Paul who seem determined to continue to let it happen?

mvl: Ascribing her very natural and understandable anger over this delay to personal guilt is a hell of a stretch. -- In your opinion.

I suspect that would be the opinion of most rational people with a normal allotment of empathy.

paft: Was she unable to get in to a doctor to check on her symptoms because she had no health insurance? Was her diagnosis and treatment significantly delayed because of this? --
mvl: She had insurance but still had to pay some out-of-pocket expenses. I already said that.

In other words, her situation was not comparable to his.

Paft: "Everyone?" Including tea partiers? including the people cheering on the idea of allowing the uninsured to die? --
mvl: I don't know, PAFT. Why don't you ask people who are part of the Tea Party.

I don't need to. They're quite outspoken. Haven't you noticed?

mvl; A point already made several times in this room. The opinions of a few people do not represent an entire group/party....

I keep being told that those yahoos yelling "yeah" only represent a "few" people on the right, (when I'm not being told by another right winger here that they represent the majority.) I hear this at the same time I am told by other right wingers that "yeah" is the appropriate answer.


mvl; If a public option were ever enacted, Steve would have been on the same path he was when he died -- waiting for surgery.

That's not what I've heard from people who actually live in countries that offer a public option. At the very least, he would have had access to a physician who would have diagnosed his cancer before it metastasized to his spine.

mvl Female breast cancer patients in countries with a fully government run health care system are denied some medications.

Do they have access to regular checkups that enable a prompt diagnosis and treatment?

That alone would put them in a better position than America's uninsured.

mvl: As for common decency, no one's gonna kiss your rump or anyone else's because of comments made by a few idiots.

I'm not asking anyone to kiss my rump.

Re: Oh brother, is there no end to the disingeuousness of political animals?

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Her brother's cancer might very well have been more treatable if he'd been able to get to a doctor who diagnosed it in time. That's really what she's mad about. -- Then if her beef is with the doctors and NOT the government, she shouldn't be using her brother's illness and death as political fodder.

And I see you failed to address my point that if the opinions of a few represented the many (as you keep arguing they do), the Left would be nothing but people issuing death threats to the Bush family.

Stay classy, PAFT!

Re: Oh brother, is there no end to the disingeuousness of political animals?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Her beef -- as she made clear -- is with a healthcare system that offers few alternatives to people in her brother's position, and with politicians like Ron Paul who seem determined to keep it that way.

I have not heard choruses of left-wing crazies yelling "kill the bankers" at important Democratic candidate debates. Have you?

Re: Oh brother, is there no end to the disingeuousness of political animals?

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

I have not heard choruses of left-wing crazies yelling "kill the bankers" at important Democratic candidate debates. Have you? -- Look up the Wall St. protests perpetrated by Code Pink and see what you find.

Re: Oh brother, is there no end to the disingeuousness of political animals?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have been following those Wall Street protests. What has Code Pink been interjecting into democratic debates there and and what prominent Democrats have refrained from commenting? Who has Code Pink been yelling about killing?