Athena and Hermes

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

This image from the ealy nineteenth century shows two Greek deities rendering assistance to a Native American. The image has some magical content in the sense that includes occult symbols. The Greek deities could be considered to be occult symbols because they are not mentioned anywhere in Judeo-Christian sacred texts. Fundamentalist Christians may even regard them as profane idols.

Neither Athena nor Hermes exist as physical entities, but they have a profound effect on the minds of the superstitious. The messenger of the Greek pantheon is depicted as naked. This alone can stir up a variety of emotional reactions. A dogmatic Franciscan may hasten to wrap the poor boy in his cloak. A typical San Franciscan may think the guy had just come from the Folsom Street Fair. A latent homosexual Texan may see him as a Son of Satan as he ogles the plump derriere.

Anyone who knows a little bit about Masonic initiations will recognize a revival ritual. The Native is being brought back from the domain of the dead. He is given new life like the Lazarus of the Jesus legend. When the self-hating Texan finds out about this secret significance, he will excrete another piece of building material as he realizes the implication of a Greek idol doing something that only Jesus is allowed to do. The Julius worshiper will also drop a prismatic rock as he fears the revival of human sacrifice.

This image brought back memories from a telecommunications project I worked on a number of years ago. As we were testing the equipment, we used a test script that included the name of the ancient icon. A competing organization deliberately corrupted our signal by replacing the name of the character with the name of a viral infection. It was a single phoneme corruption, but the corrupting algorithm actually replaced the entire word. We were able to detect the corruption by breaking the word into syllables. The competing product became part of our test framework for fault injection.

The image appeared in Humboldt's Atlas published at the time of the second revolutionary war with Britain. It has some interesting political implications as it shows European interest in Native American independence. What does this image bring to mind for you? Can you identify any of the other occult symbols in the image and share their meaning with the rest of us?

Comments

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

You sure it shows the european interest in native american independence and not merely the "noble savage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage)" of romanticism?

Do you have a source for the print? (I'm not saying that as a sarcastic reference to recent events, I just think you can learn a lot about a picture by the context the author lived in)

Humboldt...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... was an explorer and scientist who came up with the idea of isotherms, among other things. Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_von_Humboldt#Latin_American_expedition) is some information on the trip that was the basis for the book. Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_G%C3%A9rard) is a bio for the artist.

Re: Humboldt...

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

A pupil of David, that is interesting. David was quite the nationalist--

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Also: The guy is an Aztec. I did a little looking and the related material is actually about exploration of Latin America. I could only find a teensy bit of info about the particular image, and its supposed to be an allegory of trade with the conquered natives of Latin America.

As an Aztec...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... he would not qualify for "savage" status. As you probably know, thinking people of the time did not view a civilization that built pyramids as savage. The Incas were also considered to be civilized, even by the standards of the conquistadors.

The word savage has its roots in the Latin word for forest: sylva.

Re: As an Aztec...

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

As an aztec he would qualify for Europeans of the time, as would anyone outside of western Europe. ;)

Re: As an Aztec...

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

In the 19th Century? There were a good number of people who didn't even consider Slavs white Europeans then, so he'd damn well be a savage.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

This is Hermes the messenger of the gods bringing Athena, the goddess of philosophy and reason, to the savage Indians of the New World. Notice the overturned idol on the ground to the left? The spear and the club laying in the dirt? Defeated in battle and their gods and world overturned, the Aztec humbly submits to the instruction of Reason in order to be enlightened and join the ranks of true human beings. His defensive shield is behind him, signifying his acceptance and willingness to be instructed.Athena bears the olive branch of peace, Hermes, the caduceus of healing and education.

Independence? After a sort, I guess, but more likely this is an image of paternalism.

You have forgotten...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... one minor detail: the people who did the damage were Christian conquistadors three centuries prior to the time of the drawing. Athena and Hermes would not be associated with such rude rabble.

Re: You have forgotten...

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Except the West has always appropriated the old Roman and Greek pantheons for their own purposes, regardless of the actual religion of the groups using the images.

Re: You have forgotten...

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

I don't think that either Athena or Hermes are particularly troubled by the damage. Considering ancient Greek attitudes towards barbarians, I'd say they would cede no ground to an conquistador in the arena of rudeness or rabble-dom.

Re: You have forgotten...

[peamasii.livejournal.com]

Why, Hellenistic Greece never went to war to make conquests?

Re: You have forgotten...

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Bigger nitpick-the people who did the damage were Christian conquistadors and 100,000 Indians who wanted their guy to be Emperor instead of the Emperor.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Close, but actually Hermes is also the patron of trade, so it's enlightenment and trade both. In general though yes, its a symbol of bringing "Correct civilization" to the conquered savages.

[3fgburner.livejournal.com]

Yanking something in from WAY out in left field, not to mention several decades later,

"Take up the White Man's Burden..."

"Do you like Kipling?"

"I don't know, I've never kippled before."

That sounds like...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... political correctness - Mason style.

As I noted above, the Aztecs were not considered to be among the "savages" of America.

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

It's an illustration for a book about the travels of Humboldt and Bonpland (title : Le voyage aux régions equinoxiales du Nouveau Continent, 1799-1804). A passage of the book is about Quetzalcoatl.
Humboldt thought that he was a deified man. IMO the illustration shows Athena and Hermes receiving Quetzalcoatl, a man, in the land of gods.

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

This mountain in the background, Quetzalcoatl getting down from the throne (or pyramid ?)... As an afterthought, it's rather "the land of ancient gods".

Interesting theory...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... however, it does not match the images of Quetzalcoatl found in literature and architecture:



Architectural examples can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xochicalco_Serpiente_Emplumada_GR.jpg) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teotihuacan_Feathered_Serpent_(Jami_Dwyer).jpg).

Re: Interesting theory...

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

I guess, since you are what you eat, it would be fair to depict Quetzalcoatl as a man.

Re: Interesting theory...

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Yeah but this was by a European neoclassic.

Re: Interesting theory...

[lai-choi-san.livejournal.com]

One of these two architectural examples was described by Humboldt as crocodiles spitting water. Humboldt's writings focused on the human-like aspect of Quetzalcoatl (btw the name of several historical figures). Plus the "native" on the image wears a headgear that is characteristic of Quetzalcoatl the God-Priest.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I have no idea what this post is about.

You...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... are not alone.

Update on Humboldt

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

In a supplement to his Atlas called Personal narrative of travels to the equinoctial regions of America : during the years 1799-1804, Humbolt (in translation) wrote:

Since I left America, one of those great revolutions, which at certain periods agitate the human race, has broken out in the Spanish colonies and seems to prepare new destinies for a population of fourteen millions of inhabitants, spreading from the southern to the northern hemisphere, from the shores of the Rio del Plata and Chile to the remotest part of Mexico. ... At Quito several of the most virtuous and enlightened citizens have perished, victims of devotion to their country. While I am giving the description of regions, the remembrance of which is so dear to me, I continually light on places which recall to my mind the loss of a friend. ... I even venture to indulge the hope that this work will be thought worthy of attention when passions shall be hushed into peace, and when, under the influence of a new social order, those countries shall have made rapid progress in public welfare.

In addition to this, his writings are imbued with the spirit of republican and religious reform. My initial suspicions seem to have been vindicated.

BTW, I found one of the components of the image above in an English translation of the Atlas including the pyramid in the background and the statue in the foreground.