Should we bring back the Lash?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Advocate corporal punishment and most people will scoff or recoil in horror. "What do you take us for? Barbarians?" seems to be the most common response. and yet, thanks to the "War on Drugs" and mandatory sentancing the US imprisons more citizens per capita than any other country in the western world. One month ago the US Supreme Court ruled that conditions in California prisons were unconstitutional, specifically that the prevalence overcrowding coupled with shoddy/non-existant medical treatment constitued cruel and unusual punishment. Furthermore the prevalence of rape in american prisons has been declared a humanitarian crisis by numerous watchdog groups.

It's a simple question really.

If given the choice between 10 years in a California prison or 10 lashes in the public square which would you choose?

Personally I'd choose the whip.


PS:
The above morally-framed argument completely ignores the economic incentive for corporal punishment, you don't have to spend ____ years feeding and housing a flogged prisoner and you do not loose a potentialy valuable member of the workforce. Though if the former is your chief concern we could just bring back chain gangs.

Comments

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

It had to be done.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Oh, I thought it was online petitions.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

It's a horrible choice to be forced to make. The third option seems almost reasonable.

[malakh-abaddon.livejournal.com]

Why don't we just make people listen to Barney for several days while they are injected with mind altering drugs. Oh yeah, just kick my ass in the public square, call it a day. I promise I learned something, that being if I do the same thing, or anything again, don't get caught.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

The legal consequences are no deterrent for breaking the law. Maybe the laws should be reviewed.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Hush, it's called euthanasia!

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Having huge numbers of healthy prisoners is good for business. This is USA's 21rst century's slave workforce. Nobody is intending on reducing prison overpopulation. That would be bad for business.

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

its a no-brainer, I agree.

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

the problem is sociopathy. Many prisoners are idiots or people who were temporary idiots, if you prefer. But there are plenty of true sociopaths as well. We lock them up to get them away from society. Good thing we do. If its more "humane" to lock them up and take care of them for life, fine. But all the non-sociopaths?

The problem is sifting through and figuring out who's the idiot and who's the real sociopath.

The whip isn't an option

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

There's no better time then to be in the American prison business. Did you know American prisons house more "guests" then China? And China has five times the population. China simply isn't living up to it's full potential. USA has better laws, better cops, tougher sentences, and makes better use of inmates time while in prison.

IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T, Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom's, Revlon, Macy's, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores, etc. all contract prison labour in the 37 states that allow it.

Now that crime is down, prison sentences will have to be longer to meet the demand of these contracts, and they already are. The California 3 strikes law was a real help to keep crime down, but fortunately we get to lock them up and make them productive members of society again as they work right inside the jails.

This is the ideal labourforce. It's domestic (not made in Taiwan), not unionized, fewer sick days, no personal days, never late, never complains (like who cares if they do?) and did I mention cheap? Holy shit these guys work for less then then kids we have chained up out in international waters. CHEAP!

Did you say some of these prisoners were raped? Oh no! Do they need to take some time off... LOL, I'm just joking with you. Nobody gives a shit about these pussies. They're friggin' criminals! Who gives a rats ass?

Corporal punishment isn't making a cheap labour force so it just isn't going to work. The future, just like the past, will have an economy based on slave cheap ethnic labour.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

There is testing now that is very accurate at determining psychopathy and sociopathy, now if we could only get elected officials to also receive that screening.

I agree with the 'temporary idiots' being fairly high, I know a few of these people and it's more impulse control problems than malice.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

I saw the petition but couldn't afford to send my money order in with it until the end of the month. But Oprah is great isn't she? Did you see when she gave away all those cars?!!! She's so generous. I learned everything I know from her. Thankfully she has her own network now. I was getting bored and didn't know what to do with my day. I mean I was practically suicidal! After 4 o'clock I'd be watching reruns of M*A*SH*, isn't that pathetic? But now there's Shania Twain, the Princess chick and that guy with all the dogs... A cup of tea and a box of bonbons and I'm a happy camper. :)

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Um, wouldn't it be easy to have them apologise, make restitution, and try to rehabilitate them... I mean that would sort them out pretty easy. We would know pretty quick who just did some dumb shit and who actually just doesn't give a shit.

[tridus.livejournal.com]

You speak truth. If harsh punishment really stopped crime, I'm pretty sure the Romans wouldn't have had any.

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

The above morally-framed argument completely ignores the economic incentive for corporal punishment, you don't have to spend ____ years feeding and housing a flogged prisoner and you do not loose a potentialy valuable member of the workforce.

Not to mention the reality show revenues.

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

I've felt that way about the last few elections.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

It's because the question is raised in a manner where the comparative advantage is quite obvious. If it was put "whipped until your skin is flayed entirely from your back, or ten years in prison" it would be a little more problematic...

[primroseburrows.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I get nervous about "options" offered by people in power. And it's not just flogging that's suspect, it's the culture of flogging--most of the countries that allow judicial corporal punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_corporal_punishment) aren't exactly known for their outstanding human rights status. There's just so many ways that this kind of punishment can be abused. And yes, the prison system/culture is corrupt and abusive as well, but adding another way for the powerful to inflict suffering on the powerless doesn't strike me as an improvement. And yeah, I know it sounds idealistic, but instead of just throwing another form of institutional abuse at the problem, why don't we try to get at the problems of why prisons are so overcrowded? Stuff like poverty, abuse, mental illness, addiction, yadda.

[zeitgeistic.livejournal.com]

I don't know about a public square flogging, but I am in favor of keeping your children in line with a spanking, when appropriate. I don't even have kids, but I've met some parents who love to volunteer that I must not spank them when I do have them, or else I'll be an abusive parent. Americans are too soft on our kids. Any MTV reality tv series will show that.

My Super Sweet Sixteen (http://www.mtv.com/shows/sweet_16/series.jhtml), anyone?


(First time poster)

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Sad but true (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html)

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

That argument cuts both ways. Replace "ten years in prison" with "ten years of confinement in a crowed cell with bad food worse medical care, regular beatings, and a sprinkling of rape".

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Is it?

Would you like to propose an alternative?

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Yes. How do we reform our justice system to rehabilitate people and help them become productive members of society, instead of institutionalizing criminality?

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Should we bring back the Lash?


No.

Next question?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Mr. Churchill approves this message.