I, like many others, can never get enough Weiner

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Anthony Weiner is just another garden-variety scumbag with absolutely no personal integrity.

The question I would like to ask is whether we should really care about this?  That is, given the choice, would we rather have people in government who are garden-variety scumbags -- but who advocate for policies that we believe optimally serve the interests of the citizenry -- or people who have high moral character, but are incompetent at governing and/or are completely wrong-headed when it comes to public policy?

My own sense is that I'd rather have someone skim half a million from the public coffers and make decisions that save us billions than someone who is squeaky clean -- but whose incompetence undermines justice and prudence.
 

Comments

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Meh. He shouldn't have lied. I don't care that he did it. That's his personal business.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

directly to your question though:
We should never excuse corruption for good job performance. We should have low tolerance towards corruption. It's not ok if they're doing a good job. We don't conditionally allow corruption.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Yes, people seem to miss the real issue here (if there's an issue at all). It's not that some guy showed his crotch to some other people on the internet, meh. It's that he has lied. It raises some questions about his integrity when it comes to more serious issues such as, hm, policy.

The ends should not justify the means.

[404.livejournal.com]

I'm curious, to what level of corruption are you willing to stomach because they are doing stuff you like? What about corrupt politicians doing stuff you don't like?

Re: The ends should not justify the means.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I would couch it terms of what I personally like or don't like. I think there are actually good/right and bad/wrong policies. In the example I gave, financial waste was the bad/wrong outcome.

Of course, we would prefer to have people governing us who are not corrupt and make wise decisions. I was trying to ask a question about the real wold -- rather than a fantasy.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I agree that it probably shouldn't be news; the conflict I have is is Larry Craig's arrest news? I mean there's the fact that he was arrested, which probably should be news, but does the fact that he like random men matter? It's made more difficult by the fact that he is completely anti-equality...

So I guess the question is, do pervs get a pass whilst self loathing closet cases get coverage?

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I'd rather have someone incompetent and honest than a good crook; that's just asking to get robbed. Waste I can deal with, corruption not so much.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Even if the waste amounts to billions -- or the person's bad decisions cost soldiers and civilians their lives?

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

Honest and incompetent any day of the week. By the way, this 'incompetence' only seems to apply to his persona life and use of the internet, not his policy skills? If you want to make the leap that his sexy chats and dick pics make his political stances suspect, by all means hop on the crazy train.

He may have lied, but at least he finally fessed up to it. Most politicians will just say they were never wrong and hope people forget about it.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

By the way, this 'incompetence' only seems to apply to his persona life and use of the internet, not his policy skills?

Who suggested that Weiner is incompetent? I'm not sure how you are reading that into this post. If anything, it's about the very converse of that.

He may have lied, but at least he finally fessed up to it.

Did he fess up because his conscience became fully engaged? Or was it because his lies didn't hold up under intense scrutiny?

[yahvah.livejournal.com]

You have set yourself up with a false dilemma. Let us have people with high moral character and governing skill.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

That person likely does not exist. The ones with high moral character just haven't been caught yet.

Compare and Contrast

[brockulfsen.livejournal.com]

Caution, image of Australia's Opposition Leader M rAbbott is Not Safe For Lunch

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/tony-abbott-votes-unaustralian-of-the-year-by-zoo-weekly/story-e6freooo-1225823069399

Re: Compare and Contrast

[deborahkla.livejournal.com]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! *shudder*

Definitely worse than a clothed erection, in my opinion.

[mybodymycoffin.livejournal.com]

I'm going to go the neo-Confucian route and say neither.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Is it love, as Hendrix asked, or just Confucian?

Maybe I'm just restating the OP here, but whatever

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

So I haven't been keeping up, but did he actually do something legally actionable?

If so, is it relevant to his ability to do his job?

Re: Maybe I'm just restating the OP here, but whatever

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Not that I can see. He stubbornly refused to notify the cops of the "hack," so it's not like he made a false report or anything. He just lied repeatedly on every news network that would talk to him about it.

[blue-mangos.livejournal.com]

How is it no one has commented on the post title yet?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Well, I certainly don't ;)

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on this. Politicians will be corrupt just as the Sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening, and just as water will be wet. There's a reason the Iron Chancellor said that if one likes laws or sausages, one should never see them be made.

[paedraggaidin.livejournal.com]

Funny...my real estate professor said he once had to sue a guy who was descended from Bismarck, over a land deal. Said "I'm the great great grandson of a peasant who fled Bismarck's Germany, and I got to sue one of Bismarck's great great grandsons. I love America!"

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

Well, at least he was wearing underwear. Would that classify it as "soft porn"?

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Nah, just a fashion pret-a-porter.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

While you are correct, it's also true that we should treat everyone consistently (and people should be consistent), so since essentially the same thing happened to another politician fairly recently, he should act and be treated the same as that. If you want to change things after this point, by all means, advocate for that.

[oportet.livejournal.com]

At this point, I don't think you're choosing between scumbugs and people who have high moral character. Your choices are scumbags who can hide it, and scumbags who can't.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

Anthony Weiner is just another garden-variety scumbag with absolutely no personal integrity.

So is he going to run for Mark Sanford's spot for Governor of South Carolina now?

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Whether someone agrees with this position or not, you seem to have at least addressed the core question here in a rather direct and coherent manner.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

i'm just tired of hearing about the sexuality of politicians *puke* they are human, yeah, so what.....blah blah blah i can't seem to understand what makes a person's sexual preferences/deviance relevant to any given political seat.... i mean, in this day and age does any one really even consider it a type of scandal??

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

i think its more about his lack of judgement, the fact that he spent a week lying about it, accused other people of trying to smear him, and otherwise acted like a complete douche.

in Canada...

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Dear Pastor Lenny,

You sir, pose an awesome question in this post. One that really gets down to the nitty gritty. Perhaps it's touches on issues quite broader then a simple answer.

As a Canadian looking south at your elections and strange custom of vetting political candidates I'm astounded what Americans think matters in elections. I mean who gives a shit about a candidates marital status and marital history. Well, Americans seem to. They also care about the candidates sexuality, ethnicity, religion, birth certificate, yadd yadda yadda. None of which impacts political candidates ability to perform the job we may hire them to do.

On the other hand, Canadians generally don't vet our candidates too deeply, and as consequence we elect politicians who don't live in neighbourhood they are about to govern, don't speak the language, and believe it or not may not have even ever visited the area, not even during the campaign!!! (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/vegas-girl-acknowledges-her-luck-embraces-new-challenges-in-ottawa/article2030517/)

But that was an exception to a rule we Canucks seem to be pretty satisfied with. We vet our politicians on things that matter. "Can you do your job and what's your experience?" seems to boil it down to what really matters.

I don't think I'm too far off your topic/question that you pose. I mean can the guy do his job and do it well, even though you don't like him? The answer is YES!

I don't like Prime Minister Harper. I wouldn't enjoy having him over for dinner... too often, anyways. I don't even like most of his policies. But I do thin he does a pretty darn good job doing what the majority of Canadians want done. Canadians want our troops out of Afghanistan. We want the justice system toughened up. We want spending under control. Etc, etc. To that end he is performing rather well.

On the other hand the opposition has a more likable leader in Jack Layton. He'd be great to pal around with. But fewer people actually trust him to do the job well. He's wishy washy. Talks out both sides of his mouth and makes unbelievable promises. No thanks.

Now, if this Weiner with his conduct unbecoming of the office cannot do his job very well, embarrasses his constituents, etc, then as a voter I would not hesitate in tossing my support elsewhere, even if I kinda like his voting record. Italians can only support a PM you has affairs up to a point. The French may elect a romeo, but there's a limit. You guys have to decide what matters.

Re: in Canada...

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

Glad you appreciated the cruz of the question.

[dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is something people should care about. I expect our government leaders to do what they were voted into office to do, not send lewd text messages or call his 'friends' on the public dime. If he were in any other professional office setting, he'd be fired. Because he's a U.S. politician, it's a major ethics issue and should be treated as such.

[11287.livejournal.com]

I personally could care less about what goes on between Weiner and Huma. I'm not in a relationship with either of them, and I'm never going to be.

What I DO care about is the fact that Weiner sent an apparently unsolicited message of his crotch to someone, which is somewhat offensive in and of itself. But, you know, when it gets down to brass tacks, that's between him and Ms. Cordova.
His actions AFTER this indiscretion was discovered were, to me, the most reprehensible. Not only does he LIE about the whole situation, he repeats this lie over and over again. And all the while, the press are going after his recipient--who again, is totally innocent. What really disgusts me is that he watched Gennette Cordova twist in the wind and get dragged through the mud over this, fully knowing the reality of the situation. And this continues, without him doing anything, for two weeks. And ONLY when he's backed against a wall and confronted with incontrovertible evidence that he is, indeed, a scumbag does he take a shred of responsibility.

would we rather have people in government who are garden-variety scumbags -- but who advocate for policies that we believe optimally serve the interests of the citizenry -- or people who have high moral character, but are incompetent at governing and/or are completely wrong-headed when it comes to public policy?
I think this is fallacious in regards to Weiner, if only because in the 13 years he's been in Congress, he's proven to be a mediocre legislator. Sure, he says funny things to Republicans on MSNBC, but that's not his actual job.

But to answer the question, it depends. I really admire people who go out of their way to learn a different culture, put themselves through school, and take in foster children. But I don't think that this history makes up for Michele Bachmann's political positions.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda torn. While I think who he does and does not sleep with is no one else's business we're talking at last count SIX women he was doing this stuff with. Who does he think he is, Jack Kennedy?

Jack Weiner? Nah, too easy.

An affair is one thing, going around half-cocked (huh huh huh) like he did is another. It's a shame that he can't keep it in his pants. It's a shame that we don't have more strong liberals in American politics. I like him for his convictions and his fierce advocacy of his ideals, but if he falls by the wayside from this I won't shed a tear.

[mlledesade]

I'd rather have a scumbag that gets things done. I don't care if a politician cheats on his wife and has several dozen illegitimate children. That's between the couple. What I care about is a politician who can get shit done for his constituents at the end of the day.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

So I can count on your vote?