High speed rail comes to California

[telemann.livejournal.com]

California's high speed rail will start with a spur between Bakersfield and Fresno. The spur has earned some giggles from conservatives, considering how relatively small those two cities are. But this is the start of a high speed rail line that will eventually extend from San Francisco to San Diego. Federal money from the stimulus bill passed in 2010 has jump-started the project, with additional monies from Wisconsin and Ohio (the Republican governors of those states did not accept the Federal grants).

The construction will create 150,000 jobs in California, and some estimates have projected nearly 650,000 permanent jobs will be created along the rail corridor. The project will help reduce overtaxed roads in California, and will remove more than one million vehicles from the state's roads and freeways; and it will also lessen California's dependence on foreign oil by up to 12.7 million barrels per year. Estimates vary from 22 million to up to 96 million riders per year). The final cost of the entire project varies by source, but some estimates have been as high as 81 billion dollars. It's estimated as spurs are completed, profits from those lines would help finance construction costs, making it somewhat cost effective. I think the entire project is a great one, and sure it's going to be very expensive, but then-- most big projects are. The United States has been falling significantly behind on infrastructure investments for some time, we need to do something about it!

Comments

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

Only if it is cheaper than mp3s and has a better sound.


This is faster and will be more reliable than Amtrak; the question is the price of tickets.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

But your response was just a fancy way of saying, "No."

no, my response is a fancy way of saying 'people do things for different reasons, but price and reliability are huge factors'.

seriously, people still collect laserdiscs and 8-tracks and vinyl - it isn't a valid comparison.


your other comments... agreed with me about price and specified reasonable speed and schedule. which I mentioned in my last comment.

and comparisons to Europe don't mean anything if we do things differently. so lets do things differently.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Why do you always ask "If a tree falls in the forest..." questions? I mean, do you just pick random things that you know have no current market value for giggles or what?

[politikitty.livejournal.com]

Take it up with Jean-Baptiste (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=supply+creates+it's+own+demand).

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

high speed trains aren't 8-tracks. they are more like CDs or MP3s, if you want to go with music comparisons, for crying out loud.

[politikitty.livejournal.com]

That's a lot of meaning to take out of 10 words.

whoaskfinds posted an economic truism, and I countered with a different one. Mostly to reflect that invoking something considered economic fact is different from actually making an argument.

Second, explaining economic theory in the case of extremes rarely works because it sounds so absurd as to be believable. Economics relies on the margins. So in your example: yes, the spontaneous creation of 1 billion 8 tracks will create a demand. It's not that people will spontaneously want 8 tracks, but the owner of a billion 8 tracks will be desperate to unload them.

Just as supply=demand doesn't guarantee success of a product, neither does Says Law. But it explains why the iPad was successful despite the fact that the market existed without it perfectly content for millions of years.

[politikitty.livejournal.com]

Say's Law is really just an understanding of the reciprocal nature of supply=demand. (Though supply=demand wasn't technically coined till Alfred Marshall in the 1890's)

Again, it doesn't guarantee that the creator of 1 billion eight tracks that they will recoup their investment. It does guarantee that creating those eight tracks demanded resources (spurring economic activity), and that additionally the creator will do everything in his power to unload those 8 tracks. Even if it's scrapping them for parts after exhausting eBay and collectors.

A failed business is not proof that the market doesn't work.

Also, your definition of supply and demand are pretty schlocky. Not the actual definitions that would work for an economic explanation of supply and demand. The demand curve is the willingness to pay for a certain product at any given price point. Supply is the willingness to sell a certain product at a given price point.

Disconnects can and frequently happen. Supply and demand simply means that those disconnects will cause businesses to fail and slowly gravitate towards the natural equilibrium.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

except for the fact that he's not talking about obsolete equipment.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Except that you're talking about a high-speed rail system that will help to significantly reduce traffic congestion, and thus pollution. The comparison to coffee cups doesn't work either. There's a demonstrated need for this system.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Well, then get your helicopter. People far smarter than I have done the studies; high-speed rail is a good project. It reduces traffic congestion, reduces pollution, and will be competitive with airlines.

But you're not going to like ANY project, Bruce.

I kind of think it's funny. Isn't Atlas Shrugged, or the Fountainhead, or whatever about a guy wanting to build a fast train?

[dwer.livejournal.com]

yes. And authorities on high-speed rail know far more about it than I, and I'm perfectly happy to say so.

[prock.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Next question?

[prock.livejournal.com]

No.

Next question?

[prock.livejournal.com]

Either all 1BN 8-tracks get sold, or surplus exists. Which is it?

Neither.

Any more questions?

[prock.livejournal.com]

Ah, no more questions.

I guess we're done.