High speed rail comes to California

[telemann.livejournal.com]

California's high speed rail will start with a spur between Bakersfield and Fresno. The spur has earned some giggles from conservatives, considering how relatively small those two cities are. But this is the start of a high speed rail line that will eventually extend from San Francisco to San Diego. Federal money from the stimulus bill passed in 2010 has jump-started the project, with additional monies from Wisconsin and Ohio (the Republican governors of those states did not accept the Federal grants).

The construction will create 150,000 jobs in California, and some estimates have projected nearly 650,000 permanent jobs will be created along the rail corridor. The project will help reduce overtaxed roads in California, and will remove more than one million vehicles from the state's roads and freeways; and it will also lessen California's dependence on foreign oil by up to 12.7 million barrels per year. Estimates vary from 22 million to up to 96 million riders per year). The final cost of the entire project varies by source, but some estimates have been as high as 81 billion dollars. It's estimated as spurs are completed, profits from those lines would help finance construction costs, making it somewhat cost effective. I think the entire project is a great one, and sure it's going to be very expensive, but then-- most big projects are. The United States has been falling significantly behind on infrastructure investments for some time, we need to do something about it!

Comments

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

bakersfield to fresno?

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

Ferries don't travel at 200 miles per hour. They also don't have the same limitations as trains, such as maximum widths and heights imposed by existing infrastructure. Train length and weight would be another one, given the requirement to haul a half dozen or more autoracks with every passenger railcar.
I like the idea, but the engineering and safety issues around it haven't been resolved yet, and doing so would only add to complexity, cost and time needed for the project.

[essentialsaltes.livejournal.com]

The clodhoppers will be able to visit the shitheels and vice versa.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

I hear excuses like that, but they don't fly with me.

Supposedly we're the best, most energetic, most capable, wealthiest, most free country in the entire world. We are the United States of America, the most superior nation to ever grace the planet, the pinnacle that all others should aspire to.

And yet, we can't do thing that other countries can. Like high-speed transport. Like full health care systems. Like nuclear power. Like a slow-switch over to non-polluting systems. Full deployment of high-speed internet. Etc, etc, so on and so forth.

IF we are the best nation on the Earth, then we should be able to do these things easily and have them make a profit with no problem, regardless of our population density or size of the nation or what-the-fuck-ever. IF we are superior, we should be able to do anything any other country can do and do it better.

The message I get? We Americans are deficient and inferior in quite a few respects to other countries.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Besides, most of these high speed train routes are planned for extremely populous areas, or some of the most successful routes operated by Amtrak currently, which is exactly the role the CBO suggested for financing any new projects-- focus on areas with high ridership, e.g. the Northeastern corridor. Those areas are comparable to European countries in population.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Yes. Commuters do not travel the routes they are building.

If this is correct and is such a lie, then why do I not see this being trumped about in news about CA? Surely such a lie would be a big whistleblower or mudraker story, garnering perhaps a Pulitzer.

Or, if you say it's a lie, what are your sources for that?

Almost. I live pretty far from my job at 15 miles (20-45 minute drive).

That's just plain unnatural.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

come now...don't forget my pa's dairy boots.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

Only if it is cheaper than mp3s and has a better sound.


This is faster and will be more reliable than Amtrak; the question is the price of tickets.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

Yeah, when freight has right-of-way it plays merry havok with schedules.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

Only so long as there is no competition. I can see gov backing down in this.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

If this is correct and is such a lie, then why do I not see this being trumped about in news about CA? Surely such a lie would be a big whistleblower or mudraker story, garnering perhaps a Pulitzer.

I don't know. I haven't heard anyone making a big deal out of it being for commuters though, everyone here knows it's not for that.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

Why do you always ask "If a tree falls in the forest..." questions? I mean, do you just pick random things that you know have no current market value for giggles or what?

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

OK, so "everyone knows". But what are your authoritative sources?

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

And yet, "everyone knows" there are no commuters.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Do a google search, look at the articles. I haven't found one yet that mentions anything about it being for commuters.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/12/first-leg-of-california-high-speed-rail-project-chosen-critics-say-its-a-train-to-nowhere.html
http://www.kcet.org/shows/socal_connected/undertheinfluence/transportation/growers-ready-to-battle-high-speed-rail-126920110321.html
That's just a sample.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

So blogs and editorials. Great, I suppose, if you consider blogs and opinion pieces to be reliable.

But what I refer to for an authoritative source is the study done by the California High-Speed Rail Authority on Revenue & Ridership Projection, which states there will be 2.3 million intra-regional commuters (http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=6149) who will utilize this transit system.

You say this is a lie. Where can I pull the data that this is a lie in a study similar to what the California High-Speed Rail Authority has put out?

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

that area has double-digit unemployment last time i checked. maybe they'll hire some locals to ensure someone can afford the train fare...

[politikitty.livejournal.com]

Take it up with Jean-Baptiste (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=supply+creates+it's+own+demand).

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

But your response was just a fancy way of saying, "No."

no, my response is a fancy way of saying 'people do things for different reasons, but price and reliability are huge factors'.

seriously, people still collect laserdiscs and 8-tracks and vinyl - it isn't a valid comparison.


your other comments... agreed with me about price and specified reasonable speed and schedule. which I mentioned in my last comment.

and comparisons to Europe don't mean anything if we do things differently. so lets do things differently.

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

high speed trains aren't 8-tracks. they are more like CDs or MP3s, if you want to go with music comparisons, for crying out loud.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

except for the fact that he's not talking about obsolete equipment.

[politikitty.livejournal.com]

That's a lot of meaning to take out of 10 words.

whoaskfinds posted an economic truism, and I countered with a different one. Mostly to reflect that invoking something considered economic fact is different from actually making an argument.

Second, explaining economic theory in the case of extremes rarely works because it sounds so absurd as to be believable. Economics relies on the margins. So in your example: yes, the spontaneous creation of 1 billion 8 tracks will create a demand. It's not that people will spontaneously want 8 tracks, but the owner of a billion 8 tracks will be desperate to unload them.

Just as supply=demand doesn't guarantee success of a product, neither does Says Law. But it explains why the iPad was successful despite the fact that the market existed without it perfectly content for millions of years.

[prock.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Next question?

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Did they have a source for where they came up with that figure? Because I don't know of any way they can get more than 10% of that even existing, much less to use the train.

[prock.livejournal.com]

No.

Next question?