Cops and Teachers? THEY Don't Pay Taxes!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Wisconsin State Assemblyman Robin Vos lets us all know what he thinks of those taxpaying Wisconsin citizens who work in the public sector:

The reality is they haven’t had to pay for these things, they’re upset about doing it now, and the taxpayers are the ones who definitely understand this because they get it, they’ve been doing this in the private sector for years, it’s time we had the same thing happen in the public sector…The fact that my Democratic colleagues want to go back to the taxpayer and have them pay higher taxes because someone shouldn’t pay 12% towards their healthcare….We are standing with the taxpayers all across Wisconsin. It’s amazing the outpouring of support that we’ve been getting from the people outside the Capitol Square, the people who are in the reality of the world, not the place that we’re sitting.

Howard Dean does a very good job of refuting Kudlow and Vos’ fiction that the demonstrations are all about the cuts in benefits and not about the elimination of collective bargaining. The capper to this exchange, however, comes near the end of the segment, when a sign appears just over Vos’ shoulder on the right. Not the kind of thing Kudlow could choreograph.

It beautifully highlights the idiocy of Vos' fiction that the demonstrators are, in some fundamental way, less American than other Americans. Does he really think cops and teachers don't pay taxes, or “live in the reality of the world?”

Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Comments

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

its not even relevant. the bill being discussed does not eliminate unions. its just a diversion for the fearmongers.

[paft.livejournal.com]

The bill being discussed is an attempt to make unions irrelevant.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

because limiting collective bargaining for public sector unions to salary negotiations is definitely going to make unions irrelevant, and its definitely going to bring back child labor, 10 hour work days, and sweat shops too! OMG scott walker is hitler!

[paft.livejournal.com]

Yes, limiting collective bargaining in that manner does make unions irrelevant. And yes, without the stick of unions over their heads employers HAVE been known do demand 10 hour workdays from their employees.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

limiting collective bargaining in that manner does make unions irrelevant

because public sector unions negotiating for salaries is irrelevant. and private sector unions are irrelevant. nice logic paft.

without the stick of unions over their heads employers HAVE been known do demand 10 hour workdays from their employees.

thats funny, because ive never worked a union job, and ive never had to work a 10 hour day in the private sector. and those evil governments, always demanding their employees work overtime without pay!

[paft.livejournal.com]

WAF: because public sector unions negotiating for salaries is irrelevant. and private sector unions are irrelevant. nice logic paft.

Limit unions in that manner and yes, they are irrelevant.

paft without the stick of unions over their heads employers HAVE been known do demand 10 hour workdays from their employees.
waf: thats funny, because ive never worked a union job, and ive never had to work a 10 hour day in the private sector.

You're lucky. As someone who's been in the workforce since 1986, I have. More than once. And so have many other Americans, especially those who work in the service industry.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

Limit unions in that manner and yes, they are irrelevant.

this is just illogical. wages are relevant, as are private sector unions.

And so have many other Americans, especially those who work in the service industry.

good thing this has nothing to do with private sector unions. are you really this concerned about the working conditions for public school teachers when this bill passes?

[paft.livejournal.com]

Yes. This is a test case. If Wisconsin succeeds in eliminating collective bargaining, other states will follow suit, and as someone who includes public school teachers among my family and friends, I am concerned about their working conditions.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

because ive never worked a union job, and ive never had to work a 10 hour day in the private sector

Now I know you're lying.
- You're a Marine, even if you are currently a reservist. You have worked overtime without pay. Especially if you've been deployed. The military is the definition of 24/7/365 on-call.
- You're about to finish an accounting degree and will have full-time employment as an accountant. You KNOW you will be working 12-16 hour days between January and April.

Pro-tip: If you're going to play ignorant, lock your journal.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

The Marines are not the private sector :D

[paft.livejournal.com]

Is accounting?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

ive never had to work a 10 hour day in the private sector.

Lucky you. It happens, I can personally attest.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

life is so hard

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

At least they get paid for it, lower management and salaried employees don't as a rule. It happens to be state law (not union) that most employers cannot work their employees more than 8 hours in a day without payiung them over time.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

If hourly. In GA, all salaried personnel are exempt from that restriction. Thus, my Big Bosses all work 60-80 hour weeks.

[paft.livejournal.com]

And of course, no wealthy and influential employer and political contributor would ever DREAM of breaking state law, because non-union employees would tell them, "You can't do that, bossman! it's against the law!"

And the employer would knuckle down and pay them the overtime chop chop instead of firing them on some pretext!

Right?

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

I confess I have no idea about "wealthy and influential employer and political contributor" and what they would do. But it doesn't happen as often as you want to imply I also know that construction work is different than working in a machine shop. I mean I generally pay my employees 8 hours for 6 and half hours work, not because I'm a great guy, but becasue I can't firgure jobs at what should be the going rate and get them.
While we are on this sligh diversion, you know as well as I do, one of the reasons emplyers can get away with a lot of that crap is because of our illegal alien work force, and I would be all for enforcing the laws already on the books against employers.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

its definitely going to bring back child labor

Yeah, no one wants that (http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2011/02/leno_mocks_missouri_child_labo.php)!

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

It doesn't eliminate unions outright, just cripples the unions of Wisconsin's public employees. If it succeeds, what will stop Republicans from doing the same elsewhere?

It's not fearmongering if the fears are plausible.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

just cripples the unions of Wisconsin's public employees.

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations."

FDR

It's not fearmongering if the fears are plausible.

suggesting a return to a 10 hour workday because of this bill in wisconsin is fearmongering.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

Like I said, it's not fearmongering if it's plausible (and it is). All the quotes from FDR won't change that.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

if you actually believe that this bill in Wisconsin is going to bring back a 10 hour workday, you have some serious issues to work out.

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

If you think the GOP will stop at only crippling public employees' unions in Wisconsin then it's you that has the issues.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

i know they want to do the same thing in most states. it has nothing to do with private unions, or a 10 hour work day. but hey, keep playing the fear card.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

"what will stop Republicans from doing the same elsewhere?"

Nothing, hopefully :P