![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
zebra24.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
talkpoliticsI just find this nice "Petition to the European Parliament and the United States Congress To Place Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on a "No Entry List"
What else should happens, before USA will ban Putin and his "president from the pocket" - Medvedev?
1999 - war in Chechnya, war crime there - is not sufficient. (who is mr. Putin?)
2008 - war against Georgia, war crime there - is not sufficient.
Political murders - is not sufficient.
Human rights problem in Russia every year worsen is not sufficient?
What else doesn't matter?
BTW, I think it is important for USA/EU even more then for Russia.
What else should happens, before USA will ban Putin and his "president from the pocket" - Medvedev?
1999 - war in Chechnya, war crime there - is not sufficient. (who is mr. Putin?)
2008 - war against Georgia, war crime there - is not sufficient.
Political murders - is not sufficient.
Human rights problem in Russia every year worsen is not sufficient?
What else doesn't matter?
BTW, I think it is important for USA/EU even more then for Russia.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:19 (UTC)* I don't have another explanation for his famous :
"We will kill terrorists everywhere - in airports, even in toilet"
This is especially nice, since some of guys, claimed to be as terrorists never supported terror against civilian.
* I don't have another explanation for this act of terror in Qatar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelimkhan_Yandarbiyev
Note, that killers - are known as Russian special agents, and after Qatar gave them up, they were released after one year of sentence.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:26 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 08:09 (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya
also
Natalia Estemirova, Umar Jabrailov, Zarema Sadulaeva ...
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 08:05 (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
About Yandarbiev - even if they had good reason to believe that he is a terrorist, Russia law doesn't allow killing him and his family, anyway.
Especially killing in way that is danger for not related persons. (car was blown up)
Terrorism usual definition is aggression against civilians to gain some political results or other profit.
Rebels are Legitimate Military Targets as well as other side too (military and police during the war). They treat all rebels and their leaders as terrorists, which is incorrect at all.
Especially when we are talking about most ex-politicians of Chechnya.
Taking this into account, I don't have reasonable doubt that:
they are doing things against the law
they don't care about taking out human lives
In addition, I could tell that we have a number of very suspicious death of politicians in Russia.
In fact, politicians aren't so important, since we don't have real elections.
So many targeted death was usually journalists and human right advocates.
It is still not proven that it all was sanctioned by government, but taking into account two points above it is very likely.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 08:45 (UTC)Black list for authorities isn't real punishment for crime, but just recognition of the facts.
I have a lot of speculations about things I less confident, but we have enough facts, to came to this conclusions.
You know, freedom is important, but here is even more dangerous things, how long USA can ignore it?
See what happens in Egypt - it also was "stable" ally - just "not enough freedom".
Now regime as violent as Iranian authorities, or even may be as Cubans authorities.
It's bad for them, it's bad for USA/EU reputation, it's bad for other country authorities, which are looking into ways to keep power illegally or just go.
I forget to mention that :
Date: 31/1/11 08:54 (UTC)Sadly, It was said as answer on questions -
Why you sanctioned bomb strikes on Aiport/Oil refinery/Civil apartment.
I don't have good link in English, here is Russian WIKI link, just in case you can read it.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C_%D0%B2_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B5
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:36 (UTC)2* Bush said he'll hunt down the terrorists to the last person.
Also you're suggesting that USA cuts their relations with Russia because some people suspect Putin kills dissidents? That's nice, but it ain't gonna happen.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 08:16 (UTC)Anyway It depends on USA politicians.
1* We have enough evidence to question them throughly.
2* He said "hunt down" or "kill them"?
* That's nice, but it ain't gonna happen.
I know, but why not?
USA already have this ban list, I think it is very reasonable to expand this list.
Are you still have some doubt about Putin's relationship to such things?
http://lawandorderinrussia.org/2010/us-congress-introduce-magnitsky-visa-ban-law/
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 09:41 (UTC)That's realpolitik for ya.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 14:13 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:10 (UTC)I don't think so.
Date: 31/1/11 07:25 (UTC)probably about 40-50 persons responsibly for such decisions in each case.
It's even good to remove them from black list if they did everything to find and prosecute real performers.
For 140million people black list for few hundred person it is nothing.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:36 (UTC)I didn't see any government-sanctioned war crimes at all.
I didn't see any attempt to hide war crime or attempts to name not as war crime.
Corporation is different - it's private property and is not responsibility of the politician. I am not against black list for corporation leaders - related to crime and/or not cooperated with such crime investigations.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:39 (UTC)Corporations are part of society too, they don't exist on a separate planet.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 08:33 (UTC)We have few cases that was ruled as such crime in European Court of Human Rights.
We have few cases that saying Russian authorities didn't took actions to investigate them.
Fines was paid, and no legal actions taken by Russian authorities even after that.
Let's talk about personal fault - society can't be responsible for some people did, until society not investigating and not punishing for crime, when they have facts.
Confirmed by independent court war crimes in Chechnya (Georgia cases - still in international criminal court) is excellent example when you have direct connection between those who committed it and those who refused to investigate it.
(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 09:43 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 1/2/11 08:11 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 1/2/11 19:19 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 4/2/11 14:00 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 14:14 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 07:40 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 08:18 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 12:25 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 15:39 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 11:35 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 31/1/11 18:02 (UTC)Yeaaahhhhhh....
Date: 1/2/11 04:38 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 1/2/11 02:05 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 1/2/11 06:59 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 1/2/11 07:41 (UTC)