Here's a quiz

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Here's a quiz.

Two countries.

Country A has a dictatorship. The people rebel and take down the dictator.
Country B has a dictatorship. The people rebel to take down the dictator.

The US response?

The US president mentions country A in his State of the Union speech (wow!): "The USA stands with the people of Country A and supports the democratic aspirations of ALL people".

Meanwhile, the US Secretary of State comments on country B, "We're monitoring the situation closely and we call on all parties to show restraint and refrain from violence".

Additionally, a prominent opposition figure said, "We're watching these developments very carefully, and beyond that I will not comment". Well, at least he also openly admitted, "This is a very important ally of ours".

That's the rub, isn't it? One is "an important ally". The other? Who cares. Let'em have their democracy, it doesn't matter.
There's also that: who's the rebelling opposition in country B (the "friendly" country)? Islamist fundamentalists (so, not-good-people, they hate Freedom™).

Did you guess already which country A and country B are? ;-)

Comments

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

this is a real stumper. are both countries in northern africa?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Where else.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Because I've been on the conspiracy-theory (read: sci-fi) wave lately, I'll share this with you:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=3882

Enjoy the read!

[anadinboy.livejournal.com]

and they say the blue lines on the israeli flag are the nile and euprates, with israel being all the land between.

i do adore fantasy maps though. swoon

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

The U.S. is happy to prop up dictators, see Pinochet, Noreiga, the Shah, etc.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

we happily took down that saddam fellow...

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

See also: Mobutu, Rhee, Diem, Batista, Saddam, Papa Doc Duvalier, Trujillo, Franco, Salazar, and Montt. Quite the encouraging number of charming and successful dictators, that.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

No, as best I can tell Tunisia hasn't ever been all that important to US policy and interests in the region. So it makes sense that the US is going to be more interested in what happens with them.

Frankly, I think the White House is playing this pretty well. Don't get hands on but urge people to stay peaceful. If they don't...hey, can't say we didn't try.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Sure, from a realpolitik POV they're playing just perfectly. From a "we're all for Democracy, Freedom, Liberty and all the other awesome Values that we stand for" POV - the different measuring standard is sticking out - and that's what I'm focusing on here.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

I think they're still waiting to see in which direction the winds in Eg.... *cough* i mean Country-B would blow, to take the relevant course. Its classic diplomacy. What happens behind the stage is another subject.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

What you forgot is the general non-response with IranCountry C, and the support of the ruling class in HondurasCountry D. When you take those together, the proper answer is "The current US government will probably get it wrong, but can't be wrong 100% of the time."

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Why not spare all that effort and go straight to saying it has already gotten it all wrong. I mean, I'm sure for you they're already wrong before having done anything. In a way they were wrong for applying to become a government in the first place. ;-)

[hey-its-michael.livejournal.com]

U.S. Press Sec'y Gibbs: I'm Sorry, Which US-Supported Brutal Dictatorship Are We Referring To?

via The Onion on Facebook today.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

welcome to realpolitik.

Sucks sometimes.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Been there for ages. It's fun.

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

I'm more interested in what part, if any, the military plays in country B, in regards to previous history in that country. Military has been deployed by dictator B, but the military has been very peaceful in their actions and demonstrators often cheer when they see them and invite them to join their cause, while police play the part of the big bad wolf and use a lot of force. It is the job of the Republican Corps of country B to defend presidential and governmental sites, and yet protesters manage with little effort to set the NDP headquaters on fire. Could it be that country B's army plays a subtle but bigger part yet again in politics?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

One general defected to the demonstrators in this video clip. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juu7Dmf2Hns&feature=player_embedded#)

[thies.livejournal.com]

you are missing the bigger picture, this is obviously the result of events set into motion by the US freeing the people of Iraq from dictatorship and democracy now spreading through repressed muslim societies. US officials don't have to boast or make big statements, instead it's "We're watching these developments very carefully, and beyond that I will not comment", leaning back and relishing the fact to have done good for the world and its people.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

with allies like that, who needs enemies!

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

One name. Pakistan.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

See, it doesn't really matter, we (the US) are wrong. That's why I'd vote to be isolationist, I'm tired of having my feelings hurt!

You can please some of the people some of the time, and none of the people all of the time, but there is a special category that can be pleased never, and I think most of them post here.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

It takes very little to please me, specifically. Just be honest, that's all. I can take it. Lie to me while looking me in the eyes with a straight face and I get bitchy.

I suppose many people are like that. Whiners? Probably, that could be the term.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

If we have been content to allow the the Second Congo War to claim over 5 million lives through 3 administrations without comment, concern or even a Hollywood Telethon, why should this dichotomy shock you?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Logic and reason, dude. That's just not right.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Honestly one sensible thing would be to recognize that merely opposing evil on its own does not make the opposition good. In any case Mubarak is not the Tunisian dictator, and the Egyptians like the Chinese are very good at dispersing the troublesome masses. Israel probably doesn't care too much, Egypt and it are at peace and they both for their own reasons have common interests elsewhere.

I am disappointed Colonel He Of Many Spellings hasn't said anything. It'd be suitable black comedy.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

the Egyptians like the Chinese are very good at dispersing the troublesome masses

That is, if the government has the military on their side. It seems they're losing it.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Country B's government just had some wikileaks that showed they were avoiding black market nukes.

Priorities.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

In some ways it's our own fault for positioning ourselves as protectors of the "ideological faith" if you will.

That's my gripe. If the US just came out and said "yes, we are pursuing a global empire" then it would make things much easier.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

What does this have to do with the USA anyways? I thought the important thing was Egypt, Mubarak and Egypt's people.

But I guess this only goes to show that America Syndrome is alive and well. Yes, yes I understand that this is happening here, but what is American saying? What is America doing?

Fuck, stay on topic people.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I mean, this is how it works. The people in Egypt are locked in a struggle and their eye is on their enemy and obstacles before them. Everyone else? We're sitting in an abstract world. Nobody here hates Mubarak. He's just a character. And the US? That's what matters, right? Let's take America's ho-hum, run-of-the-mill diplomatic finagling and put it up against the sins of Mubarak and rant about America. I mean, at some point this becomes a reflexive game beyond our conscious awareness and metastasizes into a serious intellectual dysfunction. Fuck, people. Yes, geopolitics is a game of hypocrisy. Yes, America is bad. But at some point, at some juncture, in some issue, you start looking at things for what they are and not for what they offer in ammunition against the US. Jesus. And what if Obama said something nice and acceptable? That's right, nothing but derision and dismissal because "it's only talking". What the fuck do you want? You want America in or out? The only reason people object to American interventionism isn't because it's morally wrong (which it often is), but because they just happen to disagree with the specifics of the intervention. It's transparent as all hell, at this point.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Did you have a point to make somewhere in there?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well I'm guessing you'll have to read beyond the post title and the first paragraph. And possibly the thread.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

So, in short, the US's foreign policy reflects our interests as well as our values. This should not come as a surprise.

If you go beyond pointing out that there are inconsistencies in our foreign policy and suggest what the US should really be doing, it gets murkier.

Should the US have called for stability in Iran when the Iranian people were protesting an election that was likely fraudulent? What would be the impact of Iran's self selected mortal enemy were to call for calm? Should this have been off limits for the President and be relegated to comments from the Secretary of State?

If not, should Pres. Obama be saying that we stand with the people of Egypt in their quest for democracy rather than what we are doing now? Should the US be more visible in our support for the protesters rather than trying to apply pressure away from the spotlight?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

All I'm saying is, the US should get down from that high horse and start naming things with their names. A German minister was sacked for saying that the German troops are in Afghanistan to protect the German trade interests. That's the kind of PC that I detest. YES, they are there to protect the trade interests, why else? It's not for democracy. The US doesn't care about democracy, it cares about its trade and geopolitical interests. If Obama stands in front of the cameras and says "We cannot allow our trade and geopolitical interests to be harmed, so we'll do the right thing", I'll applaud him for having the guts. But of course that's never gonna happen. PC rules the day today. The old empires at least used to say "Put up and shut up, we're the boss". Now we're being sold crap like "democracy, Freedom, and the Values that we stand for". That's BS.