[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Word came down this week that the 500 or so post offices the United States Postal Service planned to close this year will actually be closer to 2000, with possibly 16000 more "under review":

The postal service argues that its network of some 32,000 brick-and-mortar post offices, many built in the horse-and-buggy days, is outmoded in an era when people are more mobile, often pay bills online and text or email rather than put pen to paper. It also wants post offices to be profitable to help it overcome record $8.5 billion in losses in fiscal year 2010.


Of the many things that annoy me about the government in general, the postal monopoly probably annoys me in a disproportionate manner. Running a postal service is indeed one of the few powers the government can legitimately exercise, but it's not apparent that it necessarily should in this day and age. The USPS hasn't been profitable in some time, losing $8.5 billion last year, and at least some of that can be traced to the great health, retirement, and pay packages unionized postal workers are getting while first class mail (one of the chief protected classes of mail by the monopoly) experiences precipitous declines.

The worst part is that this isn't some situation where privatization of the postal service would be a failure, because it was a roaring success when it was tried, and that was with less technology and fewer infrastructure options. Lysander Spooner, one of the great semi-forgotten folks of American history, created the American Letter Mail Company, undercutting the USPS by nearly 2/3rds. Of course, the government responded the only way it knows how:

Lawsuits against Spooner and many of his employees began to pile up and it was not long before the government hit the company with their first blow. One of Spooner’s carriers was found guilty and fined for transporting mail on a railway that was part of a postal road of the United States.
The government also took extra legal means to hurt the American Letter Mail Company. They did this by threatening railroad companies and other transport businesses with their lucrative government contracts if they dare allow mail from the American Letter Mail Company on their vehicles.


With UPS, FedEx, and DHL able to offer affordable (but more expensive due to a lack of regular routes because of the postal monopoly) alternatives, is the era of needing a postal monopoly over? Does having one even remotely make sense in this day and age? With these closures, isn't it time we said enough's enough?

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Date: 27/1/11 00:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Running a postal service is indeed one of the few powers the government can legitimately exercise, but it's not apparent that it necessarily should in this day and age.

So why shouldn't the same logic apply then to the 2nd amendment? Why should anyone be allowed to have a gun clip with 30 rounds, considering that "in this day and age" hand guns and fast loading gun ammo clips are definitely not requirements for a militia?

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Date: 27/1/11 01:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
The Constitution authorizes. Not demands that it have a whole host of services and locations.

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Date: 27/1/11 02:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thies.livejournal.com
Magazine. I don't think anyone even ever built a 30 round clip.

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Date: 28/1/11 01:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
There's a difference between a power granted to Congress and a right defined to be held by the people. The latter is in fact a power restricted from Congress. So, the difference is that they're complete opposites.

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Date: 27/1/11 00:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com
Unless UPS, FedEx, and DHL (or other companies) offer daily regular mail delivery, then no, there shouldn't be an end to USPS.

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Date: 27/1/11 00:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
My personal experience with private pseudo-postal services isn't good. Their quality of service is appalling with a number of lost packages. Frankly, until private services lift their game I'll remain an advocate of the public system.

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Date: 27/1/11 00:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Consumer Reports has said the same thing pretty much.

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Date: 27/1/11 00:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hey-its-michael.livejournal.com
I think that the Post Office still serves a very important function. Many people do still rely on it. I think closing many of the branches makes sense, but all of them? Not at this point in time.

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Date: 27/1/11 01:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] politikitty.livejournal.com
Is there any guarantee that DHL/FedEx/UPS will expand their business model to replace the Postal Service?

It seems to me they've picked the low-hanging fruit, and the market that the USPS currently holds is one that won't be profitable for them.

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Date: 27/1/11 01:33 (UTC)
weswilson: (Default)
From: [personal profile] weswilson
I agree that it is time to re-evaluate the postal service and how it is run. I am ok with privatizing a large portion of it with a few very specific caveats.

1) Any tool for privatization must maintain post offices within a reasonable drive of any American.

2) Standard postage has maintained a static cost in adjusted dollars for almost a century. Privatized sources must agree to pursue this goal.

3) Pick-up and delivery service from your home must continue.

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Date: 27/1/11 02:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bord-du-rasoir.livejournal.com
I don't understand why these ground rules are necessary. Why can't the USPS run the same as it has always run, but with the addition that other companies are not prevented from competing in the area of first class mail?

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Date: 27/1/11 02:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Actually this makes a good deal of sense. Private industries have no reason whatsoever to run postal services that will not keep them in the black. If you tell me that they would do so despite Business Logic 101 being not to do that........

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Date: 27/1/11 02:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bord-du-rasoir.livejournal.com
How is the postal monopoly enforced exactly?

Does anyone know of the legal arguments lawyers have used to prevent UPS, FedEx and DHL from competing on an even playing field with the USPS?

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Date: 27/1/11 02:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thies.livejournal.com
with them making such huge losses I don't see how a private enterprise can be relied upon to provide basic communication with similar reliability for essentially all residents

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Date: 27/1/11 03:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bord-du-rasoir.livejournal.com
"with them making such huge losses"

Private businesses wouldn't be as generous to their workers with regard to health and retirement benefits.

"similar reliability"

One could argue that the reducing the size of health and retirement benefits would not necessarily reduce reliability.

"essentially all residents"

The services provided by any one business need not be nationwide; they could be regional as in the case of Lysander Spooner's company, or specialize in urban or rural populations.

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Date: 27/1/11 03:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mijopo.livejournal.com
So, it costs us each about $28/year to subsidize a service that allows people in Alaska to send a letter to Fla. for 44 cents. I can live with it.

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Date: 27/1/11 03:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bord-du-rasoir.livejournal.com
Well, technically, if how different segments of the population pay taxes, it's more like, it costs the richest half of us about $56/year and the poorest half of us about $1.75/year. And I can live with that too.

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Date: 27/1/11 03:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bord-du-rasoir.livejournal.com
I agree with the position of this post legally and philosophically, but I don't know how much it really matters in terms of the federal deficit and the U.S. economy.

Would transferring letter carrying over from public to private hands help the economy in any way? I can't conceive of how it really would.

And if the U.S. annual deficit is something like $1,171 billion, $8.5 billion is something— something small (0.7%); it's one item below at least a dozen or two dozen larger federal expenditures that could be downsized.

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Date: 27/1/11 05:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
I'm less bothered when government offers services like this, unlike the dystopian future of Robocop, not every government service is ideal for corporate takeover.

Though I don't know how this holds up, the argument I've always heard is that the more profitable services of the USPS subsidizes the mail service for all the shitty areas.

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Date: 27/1/11 07:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Maybe you should be less annoyed and stop talking politics so personally. How in God's name does it annoy you? Sheesh. Have an opinion, whatever. But this game where everyone acts offended and annoyed that the world is not the way they want it is just juvenile.

Thanks Jeff

Date: 27/1/11 15:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] verytwistedmind.livejournal.com
I'd never heard of Lysander Spooner before! Anyone who inspired Fredrick Douglas. He was one of my first heroes as a kid.

I just put him on my to-read list.

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Date: 27/1/11 20:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
Easiest thing to do would be to cut mail delivery to M-F, reduce those rural post offices to 3 day a week delivery, rather than totally getting rid of them. Not everyone is as dependent on computers or email, and that many times the only interaction they have with the outside world is through the mail service.

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Date: 27/1/11 22:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nevermind6794.livejournal.com
Lysander Spooner cherry-picked the profitable routes that subsidized the unprofitable routes to rural areas, which would have made the USPS unprofitable/-sustainable. Of course he could afford to undercut them.

If private companies guaranteed one rate to everyone in the country for first-class mail, and guaranteed to pick up mail from all cities, towns, etc., they could replace the USPS. But I doubt they would, even if they were allowed. As has been mentioned, there simply isn't much profit in it (at current prices, anyway). They rely on the USPS for the unprofitable portions of the routes to deliver packages already.

As for whether the USPS as it operates now is a good thing, I can't decide. It is essentially a subsidy, though a small one, to people who live out in the middle of nowhere. They get cheaper land and require more resources to provide police, fire, mail, water, road, etc. services, which is not only unfair but also makes planning and budgeting much harder for everyone else.

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Date: 28/1/11 02:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gunslnger.livejournal.com
Lysander Spooner cherry-picked the profitable routes that subsidized the unprofitable routes to rural areas, which would have made the USPS unprofitable/-sustainable. Of course he could afford to undercut them.

What's your excuse for the Pony Express then?

If private companies guaranteed one rate to everyone in the country for first-class mail, and guaranteed to pick up mail from all cities, towns, etc., they could replace the USPS.

What an insane restriction. If a package goes farther, it costs more.

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