The other foot.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Alright. There's been a lot of argument about whether or not the rhetoric of the right wing could or would incite an unstable person to take action against someone they have been speaking out against. But let's use a more clear example.

If Sarah Palin had said "Instead of running [to represent Arizona] they ought to have her and shoot her. Put her against the wall and shoot her", it would have been pretty clear, no? That would clearly have been inflammatory.

Well, check this out.

"Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have [Rick Scott] and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him." Paul Kanjorski, Congressman for the Pennsylvania 11th district, 1985-2011. He's a Democrat. He said it on October 23rd, 2003. (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/ex-rep-paul-kanjorski-d-pa-fla-gov-rick-scott-they-ought-put-him-)

Now, I'm going to honestly say, I've never heard of this guy, and I didn't hear him say what he did when he said it.

Had I heard him say what he did, I would have spoken against him. What he said was wrong, and incendiary, and violent, and out-rightly so. People should not speak this way about political opponents.

Even worse, Kanjorski is trying to dodge responsibility, much like many of us believe Palin and Rush and others are doing.

Reached by phone Tuesday, Kanjorski said "only fruitcakes" would take his statement about Scott literally. The 73-year-old Democrat from Nanticoke, who this fall lost in his bid for a 14th term representing the 11th Congressional District, admitted he's well known for using "colorful language." "I probably would never have made the statement if I anticipated anything like this happening," Kanjorski said. "It was obviously not in humor, but not literally." (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/kanjorski-only-fruitcakes-would-take-my-call-shoot-governor-liter)

Again, wholly inappropriate, and we should be thankful that someone didn't take his initial statement seriously. Anyone who calls for violence against political opponents, whether openly or masked in metaphor, left or right, republican or democrat, should be repudiated.

Comments

[qnetter]

Yep. He's a jerk. And now, an unemployed one. Shame on him. Now let's move on. (The fact that few people have ever heard of him gives some indication about the relative impact of it as compared to Palin's, of course.)

[ninboydean.livejournal.com]

Frankly, its absurd to discredit violent rhetoric. But when it develops a fascist character, full-on with xenophobia, corporatism and militarism, we need to be concerned.

And applying this to the above, its highly likely that both Palin and Kanjorski are in support of this extremist, nationalist model. I dunno as much about the latter, but Palin is clearly dangerous in this regard.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Bullshit. The fascist character was not merely "Me ne Frego" it was an organized bunch of gangsters and thugs who went around breaking heads. They had bite and bark, and weren't afraid to use either. Neither Palin nor Kanjorski would fit in with the real fascists of the Interwar period. Now, they might well be the Jayhawker (Kanjorski) and the Redeemer (Palin) but then we aren't Europeans and already had fascism across the Old Confederacy before Mussolini was a hard-on in his old man's pants.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

He has a right to say stupid hateful shit, but then we also have a responsibility to respond to his stupid hateful shit.

What he said, if taken literally and actually carried out would be as horrific as every other time someone gets shot. He should be made to work as a nurse for gun wound victims for a few years so he can learn more about the smells, tube, puss, feces, urine, and all the other fun things about being a gunshot victim.

What the fuck is wrong with saying, "I was wrong. It was a stupid hateful thing to say and I shouldn't have said it. I'm embarrassed by my actions and I apologize."?

Isn't taking responsibility for ones language being an adult or something?

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Glad to know that he is out of office and never likely to be in office ever again.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I never heard of him, but I am glad that he's no longer in politics!

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

I think that's what most people expect: calling out the person in public. I don't think many people want a law to be passed to silence these kooks. I think that's part of the disconnect when liberals and conservatives are arguing about this.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. I think some people expect there to be legal consequences to this kind of speech. Or at least want there to be some, at least when it's someone on "the other side" doing it.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Good to see you partially get it at least. You're still missing bits.

There's been a lot of argument about whether or not the rhetoric of the right wing could or would incite an unstable person to take action against someone they have been speaking out against.

For example, this isn't what the argument is about. An unstable person can take action against anyone for whatever reason. We care about whether the rhetoric would cause a "normal" person to take action against someone they have been speaking out against. "The left" is claiming that the right's rhetoric would and "the right" disputes that.

Had I heard him say what he did, I would have spoken against him. What he said was wrong, and incendiary, and violent, and out-rightly so. People should not speak this way about political opponents.

Good, because you are correct. And if Palin or Rush had said something like this, it would have been true for them too. But they haven't.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

no. You continue to be incorrect.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Honestly rhetoric *could* do it for either. Only one side, however, has a recurring pattern of it. There have been a few instances of Leftie terrorism as late, including Eco-Nuts progressing from property damage of the chains around trees sort to firebombings and hostage-taking. The predominant pattern as late is that the Neo-Nazis and Christian terrorists are doing a lot more violence than they used to, and why the former are doing it *now* should be so obvious I should hope it needs not be stated aloud.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[mzflux.livejournal.com]

Not cool at all. Very glad this man is out of office.

Thanks for posting this here dwer. Really enjoying T_P lately.

[udoswald.livejournal.com]

Definitely inappropriate and a horrible thing to say. Very good this idiot lost (though who knows what kind of person is replacing him if even the Dems in this district are that bad).

That being said, he's no Sarah Palin. There presumably aren't fan clubs around the nation with millions of members hanging on his every word. He's not an odds on favorite to be the Democratic candidate for President in 2012. He doesn't get a million dollars for speaking appearances. The man couldn't even get a majority of voters in his own district to vote for him.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

Can we apply the same logic to Sharon Angle and stop bringing her up? She's no Sarah Palin after all, she never even held an office higher than in the state assembly and was opposed by many prominent Republicans. This guy was in the US congress.

[nevermind6794.livejournal.com]

Pretty much. His statement was totally irresponsible and in no way excusable, but it's yet another false equivalence.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

In my opinion, this is entirely and utterly irredeemable. I may and do disagree with the Right Wing, but we solve problems by ballots in this country, not bullets. We already tried that once and the State won so utterly nobody ever got the bright idea to try that again. We are smarter than that now. Some shit just ain't right, whether the person who says it is someone you agree with or you disagree with.

[zebra24.livejournal.com]

Yes, and hate speech against top manager's or bankers or Wall Street must be considered seriously too.

Since Obama did it not once, probably you should blame him as well.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Banker: Let's leave those buggers to beg on the streets muhahaha! (evil grin)
Media watchdog: I heard yooou!
Banker: Big deal, mofo.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

you can't have hate speech against managers or bankers. They're not a protected class. Besides, I've got no real idea what you're talking about.

[thies.livejournal.com]

implying that honest and upright politicians aren't an endangered species only very rarely encountered in the wild these days

[kawaiimamimi.livejournal.com]

This is terrible. I'm glad he's not in office anymore. I hadn't even heard of it until now, but I'm glad it's coming out. We don't need anyone like this is office, period.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Your final statement is a one-and-done for me.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

I am hereby invoking the Tea Party Loughner rule. Any individual who is consistent with the principles of my base, but has fallen from favor by the public, shall be deemed a terrorist and whackjob and will be 'refudiated (Palin, sic)' by said base.

[whoasksfinds.livejournal.com]

how about the common sense rule. don't use schizophrenics to smear your political opponents. is that really too much to ask from the left, or is every tragedy going to be treated immediately as a political opportunity, irrespective of the facts?