Saint John Paul II

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Let's divert the dark passions away from the horrible news that came from Arizona, just for a while.

See, I learned a new word today: 'beatification'.

So, the Vatican has suddenly found out that John Paul II had helped a nun with Parkinson to live. It's beyond any doubt that God had guided his hand in saving her life, and since "there's no scientific explanation for this", it's definitely a Miracle.

And those who do miracles are subject to 'beatification'. It's the first step to proclaiming a new Saint, post-mortum. (Except if you're a witch who also does miracles, that's called evil black magic but I digress. We're talking about John Paul II here, right?)

So, let's welcome our new Saint, then. No doubt he'll be granted this status soon. And probably he'll deserve it. Because he looked like a sincere guy who really believed in goodness. And more importantly, because the Catholic church is in a dire need of good news these days, after all the scandals that have been rocking it for years. Would that solve their problems? Probably not. But if Faith was measured in ergs, let's say John Paul II's 'beatification' adds a couple more trillion ergs into the positive side of the Good vs Evil equation. ;-)

Hallelujah.

Comments

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I agree with you completely, but I'm curious what specific attempts did you have in mind with Vatican 2 rollbacks?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I could have sworn I owned a copy of this, but I don't - Papal Sin by Garry Wills makes the argument a lot better than I can, but I think his attempts at turning the worship back toward pre-VII ideals was the worst part. Instead of modernizing the church and making it more relevant to the groups that are sliding away from the Church, he seemed hell bent on making sure the folks being alienated stayed alienated.

To his credit, kgb has a much more thoughtful and reasoned counter to this argument that I hope he shares in some form, because it really got me thinking about JPII differently, even if I didn't completely come around on it.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

None of the conservative hierarchy would ever admit to wanting to rollback Vatican II, it would be counter productive to church authority in their own view. Instead you get the semantic games with the documents and what happened and what THEY REALLY meant WAS THIS kind of games. In short order, it's like a political discussion about the 10th amendment and health care reform.

Until I had come to New York, I had NOT heard the ringing of bells during the elevation of the host as Mass since I was a kid. I literally turned around the first time I heard it here. And all the kneeling. SAnd the Credo recitation (wasn't required in our Diocese since Arius hasn't been a threat now for over 1500 years). And all the horrid miniature monk robes with hideous gold tassels for the altar servers. No community prayer requests during the appropriate times. Poorly trained lectors, who can't read properly. Lots of people that stare into their missals and recite the rosary obvious to what's going on around them. I guess its the culture here- people do the "drive-by-Jesus-cookie" they come in, get the Eucharist and post-haste leave. And it's a pretty cold mindset, nothing like what I experienced back in Virginia. BUT, I will say as a person highly involved with music, and a fan of architecture, some of the most beautiful organs and parishes I have seen are located here in Brooklyn. :-) And nothing beats having a small orchestra in a church for a Christmas Midnight Mass.

From the mouths of apostates

[kgbman.livejournal.com]

You touch on something vital that many who remain within the Church's pale have forgotten: lex orandi, lex credendi. You rightly emphasize the importance of the Church's public worship, though I remain baffled as to what you or Mr. Wills are think of as examples of John Paul II's efforts to "turn the worship back to pre-Vatican II ideals." The Tridentine Mass was much more centered on God. The priest faced the same direction as the people. He led them in their worship of the Almighty, and prayed on their behalf those prayers that pertain only to the ordained priesthood. The Novus Ordo, in contrast, is much more centered on man. To someone who's lost his faith, this probably makes more sense since he doesn't believe there is a deity to be worshiped. The priest and people face each other, smile, crack jokes, add commentary, improvise some prayers, hold hands, hug, etc. It's all very nice, but it's nice in the same way an office birthday party is nice.

John Paul II was excellent in his role as custodian of faith and morals. But he also represented a school of thought that has become dominant in the west that the law of prayer is subject to the law of belief. It's a fine thing to have all of one's doctrinal ducks in a row, but John Paul II was notoriously indifferent to the liturgy. He signed off on allowing altar girls, and had no problem at all with profane pop music polluting the sanctuary.

As to the other things you mentioned, I reply with a question: why would anyone listen to a Church that only echoes whatever we happen to believe on a given day? I don't have a lot of patience with those who prefer Tuesday to Monday because it is Tuesday. It's precisely where the Church most closely apes the secular culture that the most people have left. It's precisely where the Church is at its most Traditional that the people go. Go to a Novus Ordo parish for Sunday Mass and you're likely to see an ocean of white hair. Go to a more traditional parish, one where they offer the Tridentine Mass, and you'll see an ocean of young married couples with four or five children apiece.