Anti-Intellectualism, not as dumb as it sounds?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

So with the end of Don't Ask Don't Tell there's been a push to reinstate the ROTC program in Ivy League schools.

For those out side the US ROTC stands for Reserve Officer Traning Corps, a scholarship program in which the US military would pay a student's full tuition and living expenses in exchange for an extended period of active military service. While in school the Student is considered to be enlisted in thier respective branch of service and are subject to the discipline there off.

It'll come as no surprise to most of you that I am in favor of expanding the ROTC. In an age of ballooning costs and student debt it gives many shot at an education that they could otherwise never afford. Of course there is also the quote (oft credited to Thucydides) that

...The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.

However not everyone is onboard. Recently the Washington Post published an Op-Edarguing to keep ROTC out of elite schools. While certain salient points were made I found the final paragraph disturbing and ultimatly discrediting.

...ROTC and its warrior ethic taint the intellectual purity of a school, if by purity we mean trying to rise above the foul idea that nations can kill and destroy their way to peace. If a school such as Harvard does sell out to the military, let it at least be honest and add a sign at its Cambridge front portal: Harvard, a Pentagon Annex.
-C McCarthy

Now to be clear I do not have problem with the writer being a pacifist. While I may disagree vehemently with his conclusions, it's nothing personal. What I have a problem with is that a college professor would, with a (presumably) straight face, advocate "Intellectual Purity". Once upon a time, (if my parents and baby-boomers in general are to believed) our intellectual institutions were the bastion of dissent and political discussion.

What happened?

Noted Humorist Subversive Dave Barry,

Of Historic Note: It was demonstrators setting fire to the RTOC office in Kent Ohio that triggered the National Guard response that ended in the infamous Kent State Shootings.

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I wonder if this gentleman has ever read anything in the history books. The atomic bomb and WMD did more for peace than anything before them did.....

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

The fact that we survived the Cold War without a major exchange is one of those odd things that reinforces my faith in humanity as a species.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

"The heavens declare the glory of the Bomb, and the firmament showeth His handiwork.
May the Blessings of the Bomb Almighty, and the Fellowship of the Holy Fallout, descend upon us all. This day and forever more." -Mendez, Beneath the Planet of the Apes

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure he's read enough history that reading some more won't change how he thinks. He didn't reach his conclusions through ignorance.

He is the fellow who thought we should have waited out Hitler rather than engage in WWII. Not sure what he thought we should have done about the Japanese attack, but I'm pretty sure nuking them wasn't on his list.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

This guy doesn't do much thinking. Blaming war on soldiers is like... well... a basic fail of American government 101.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

+1

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

I don't really have any problem with ROTC programs. The kids I've worked with who were in them at the high school level tended to be more reliable than average kids.

And the military let one of my college friends actually go to college so I don't think it's a bad deal.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

What seems to have happened is that a the radical left has gotten a critical mass at some of our elite colleges and wants to keep it that way. Harvard is in no danger of becoming an annex of the Pentagon, anyone thinking this lacks perspective.

Like you, I've got no problem with someone being a pacifist. It may turn out that in 50 years, the pacifists will be viewed as the civil rights activists were 50 years ago. You never know. I do have a problem that they are trying to exclude different groups.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

I do have a problem that they are trying to exclude different groups.

Exactly, My Grandfather grew up in Ukraine durring the 30s, many memebers of his extended family were "disapeared" under various pretenses. Call me paranoid if you like, but whenever I hear someone advocating Racial Ideological Intellectual Purity the first image that comes to mind is Solzhenitsyn's (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1829150,00.html) "Blue Caps and Black Marias".

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

What an immensely silly and supremely pompous argument to entertain. Saying that ROTC will sully the intellectual purity of Harvard is like saying a sip of wine at dinner will sully the chastity of Paris Hilton. Harvard and schools like it quit intellectual purity when they all started racing for the biggest multibillion dollar endowment.

ROTC will introduce elite school students to the possibility of a life in service of their country, which is better than a generation of Harvard Business School graduates have managed.

[3fgburner.livejournal.com]

Colman McCarthy, in the beginning of Gulf War I, posted a column titled "The Coward's Air War". His thesis was that bombing the crap out of the Iraqis occupying Kuwait, before rolling in on the ground, was cowardly because the Iraqis couldn't kill Americans in return.

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1991/April%201991/0491edit.aspx

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

I agree with Patton in that "nobody ever wins a war by dying for his country, he wins a war by making the other sonofabitch die for his."

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

Well there's probably some element of truth to that, but it doesn't change the fact that aerial bombing serves a purpose that courageous charges do not.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Depends upon how you would define bravery, if there is any honesty to it at all.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

It is well known that in the 1960's and 70's many Americans escaped the draft by seeking refuge in Canada. What is lesser understood is what they did when they got here. What these draft dodgers did is teach. Many taugh professionally in our grade schools, our middle schools and our high schools. And many even taught in our Universities.

There is an old joke about the guy walks into the bar and says "Bartender, get me a drink! I'm celebrating my new job teaching." The bartender hands him a highball and says, "A teacher eh? Funny you don't look old enough to be dodging the VietNam draft."

Granted, not all draft dodgers went on to become professional educators. Some became plumbers, nurses, engineers and whatever vocation they pursued. A few even got into politics.

It is unclear how many draft dodgers came to Canada, but it is clear they have had a remarkable influence shaping the hearts and minds of Canadians. Purely anecdotal but I've known dozens of expat Americans and I know they've shaped my thinking.

What I'm hinting at is If you have a large influx of ROTC students in public universities, it will help shape that generation and probably generations that follow. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Not sure what they could possibly mean by intellectual purity.

Obvious meaning is obvious:

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That soldiers are too dumb to make good students.

[reality-hammer.livejournal.com]

The dissenters from that era are in charge now.

And they don't like dissent any more than the previous generation did.

[stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com]

And they don't like dissent any more than the previous generation did.

Try to remember that those dissenters were mostly dissenting against the Vietnam conflict. That would make their dissent pretty consistent.

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

Barbaric ROTC students are OK for lowly state schools, since they will never amount anything intellectually anyway, but heaven forbid they make it to Harvard.

[essentialsaltes.livejournal.com]

What I want at our universities is not intellectual purity, but almost its opposite: academic freedom -- the thing that allows McCarthy to publish twaddle like this without fear of recrimination.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

"Intellectual Purity" shouldn't be advocated, it should be abhorred.

[ygrii-blop.livejournal.com]

I think you all have it wrong. It's not that the Harvard intellectuals are afraid of losing their purity by renting it out to the Pentagon. They're afraid of the average John or Jane Doe making the connection that the sons and daughters of the elites can serve in the military, too. The next time an Ivy League elite in the White House decides to go to war, the sons and daughters of Ivy League elites just might be among the fodder.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

...sons and daughters of Ivy League elites just might be among the fodder.

And this is a bad thing how?

Well sure if you're trying to preserve a system of wealth and privilege things may get awkward, but this is a "Leftist" we're talking about.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

If I understand this; in the view of the intellectual elite, intellectual purity has been achieved. Therefore adding things like academic freedom would only dilute the purity. Which I guess if you look at it correctly (eyes squinched, cross-eyed or even fully closed) that makes sense.

[mrsilence.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's possible to separate this fellow's pacifist beliefs from his argument about intellectual purity.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

In his specific case maybe not.

But in general, I would say that it is possible for two pacifists to disagree about the justness of a specific action with out sacrificing thier core ideology.

Its in the demand for "Purity" (what ever that means) that things get sticky.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Just a point of clarity.

ROTC does not necessarily mean that you get to go to college for free and it does not necessarily mean the student is considered enlisted. That only happens if one is awarded one of the very few military scholarships, however most College ROTC students are not on a military scholarship.

What ROTC is is a college course run in conjunction between the school and the military in which the student is taught leadership skills and military history/theory. In general any student can take the first 2 years of ROTC classes without any military commitment whatsoever. Taking it for your Junior and Senior years does require enlisting at some level (at least it did 25 years ago) but you still did not get your school paid for unless you were on scholarship (however since you were enlisted you did receive some sort of stipend iirc).

The major advantage of ROTC is that if one graduates from the 4 year course then upon graduation one becomes a commissioned officer, no need for any further training such as Officer Candidate School.


Of course the next thing that must be noted is that your typical ROTC program has between 50 and 100 Students in it Large ones might hit 200 or 300 so if a few hundred out of tens of thousands of students are a serious threat to the intellectual purity of his precious ivory tower then just how pure can it be to begin with?

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'(at least it did 25 years ago)'

Still does. At least it did 10 years ago.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

Some people hate the military. Though smart enough to dress it up they can't help sometimes just letting it rip.

I remember the ROTC students...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I'll never forget how silly the ROTC students looked as they paraded in their funny uniforms. They could not have corrupted the college I went to any more than the connections that the administration had to organized crime. Of course, I did not go to an elite Ivy League school, and I am quite glad I did not.

As for free speech on campus, that sounds like a topic for a different post. After all, the ROTC program is not a form of speech, but a professional development program.

Re: I remember the ROTC students...

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

After all, the ROTC program is not a form of speech, but a professional development program.True.

If Mc'carthy had objected to it on these grounds I would not have had an issue with it. He did not.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

"In an age of ballooning costs and student debt it gives many shot at an education that they could otherwise never afford. "

If the govt can pay for a person to go to school, it should. Regardless of if that person is a soldier.

I'm not opposed to ROTC on campus. But I dislike that schools are so prohibitively expensive that people enlist in an organization that deals in death just to pay for an education.

Education need be free.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Education is free, one merely needs to choose to seek it out and pay attention to the lessons offered from ones environment.

What is not free is that silly piece of paper that is supposedly the ticket to the good life.

Of course the funny thing behind your statement is that if you got your wish and there was universal free (aka government paid for) higher education then the value of a college degree would be obliterated and a Bachelors degree would become what a High School diploma used to be (and in fact this has largely become true) with the "ticket to the good life" moving up the ladder to the Postgrad degrees.

The simple fact is that there are VERY few career fields where a mere Bachelors degree makes one better trained than someone who just spent 4 years apprenticing and learning on the job (I actually can't think of a single one but I'll grant that there may be a handful) and even in those a much shorter targeted vocational training program would be equal to the degree in terms of training a candidate for the position.