(no subject)
20/12/10 16:53![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
futurebird.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
talkpoliticsThis article is sort of clumsy. It seems like she's about to make the point that far too many of the black women we see in media as examples of beauty are still closer to a Eurocentric beauty model, or they are "anything but African American, slave decent, people like us" (ie. Wek, who is stunning, but looks quite different from most black American woman.)
But, then she stops short of saying that, and gets caught up in her own personal BS. This is easy to do. I do it. I've seen other women do it. In addition the article talks far to much about what black men want-- as if that were the most central issue. She equates the term 'Exotic' with those black women who have a mixture of European and black features-- something that didn't really ring true to me, but maybe we have experienced the word in different ways.
That all said, I think that the still prevalent and powerful Eurocentric/anything but you-people nature of print and popular media can have a damaging impact on the mind of young black girls and boys. It can warp our ideas about beauty no matter what type of sexual or aesthetic preferences we may have. It can influence what black people and people of all races think will be desirable in a partner. We each tell ourselves that our choice of partners is independent social pressures, but looking at population-wide trends suggests otherwise.
The Wrong Kind of Different
As a young girl in a mostly white environment I never thought of myself as exotic or special. There was a girl who moved to our suburb from Iraq and she was very exotic and special in the eyes of my peers. Now in my 8-year-old mind that was very enviable! I wished I could be exotic in that way. I knew nothing of the BS and baggage that my Iraq-born peer must have been facing-- to my mind it was like being a princess ...to come from a far away place... to be different. It never occurred to me that I was pretty different-- that was the wrong kind of different. I thought I was more plain than everyone else since, in the words of one teacher who thought she was helping "brown is the most common skin tone in the world." How do we internalize all of this by such a tender age? I was not the only young person who felt this way-- it was a view I shared with and learned from my mostly white peers.
Yo' Mama.
She's so, dark, fat, nappy and big lipped. And she's on welfare. Why did the boys, both black and white love these jokes so much? They play a big role in spelling out what a woman should NOT be. My parents deftly blocked some of this, my mom went out of her way to impress upon me that dark skin is beautiful. That darker skin could be more beautiful. I knew enough to say "Hey that's not funny!" when the dark skin or nappy hair jokes came out. Sadly, I also learned that being fat and being on welfare are solely matters of Personal Responsibility(TM). And I had a pretty warped idea of what "fat" meant. My grandma has warped ideas about nappy hair. (she thinks it's gross) I know a black woman who loves her body but hides from the sun like getting a few shades darker would kill her. (do you know many of us are vitamin D deficient?) So, some of these jokes stick to us. In what ways were notions of beauty spelled out for you as a young person?
Solution
We need to see beautiful woman who are dark, fat, black american and nappy. Well, in fact, I see such woman every day. But, I do not see them in media-- and that may seem minor but I think it can have a huge impact. We need to have this beauty publicly identified an affirmed shout it from the rooftops this is what is beautiful, pretty, lovely, elegant. Use these words. Not some other almost there words, like 'curvy' or 'strong.' To correct this kind of thinking you need to go in the opposite direction with equal and opposite force. It's not enough to have one or two such icons... how many thousands of times have you seen a woman who is thin, white, with european features described as beautiful? We don't even notice it any more. It takes time to unlearn. It's not enough to decide that it is true just for ourselves, we need to make it clear for this next generation of girls-- who are bust internalizing most of the same BS we grew up with. Nor is it enough to have a few women here and there who are black but with very european features, or features not common in American black women-- that too sends a negative message. Like the white guys in college who explained to me that black woman are beautiful if they are the "right kid" of black woman. Which brings me to this last point; cultural change may start from within the black community, but this issue (which is only a small part of a larger issue that involves women of all races) is something that people of all races should think about and take up. Just as fighting homophobia is not just work for gay people-- this doesn't get solved unless we all talk about it openly. Demand better media and discover the greater spectrum of beauty.
But, then she stops short of saying that, and gets caught up in her own personal BS. This is easy to do. I do it. I've seen other women do it. In addition the article talks far to much about what black men want-- as if that were the most central issue. She equates the term 'Exotic' with those black women who have a mixture of European and black features-- something that didn't really ring true to me, but maybe we have experienced the word in different ways.
That all said, I think that the still prevalent and powerful Eurocentric/anything but you-people nature of print and popular media can have a damaging impact on the mind of young black girls and boys. It can warp our ideas about beauty no matter what type of sexual or aesthetic preferences we may have. It can influence what black people and people of all races think will be desirable in a partner. We each tell ourselves that our choice of partners is independent social pressures, but looking at population-wide trends suggests otherwise.
The Wrong Kind of Different
As a young girl in a mostly white environment I never thought of myself as exotic or special. There was a girl who moved to our suburb from Iraq and she was very exotic and special in the eyes of my peers. Now in my 8-year-old mind that was very enviable! I wished I could be exotic in that way. I knew nothing of the BS and baggage that my Iraq-born peer must have been facing-- to my mind it was like being a princess ...to come from a far away place... to be different. It never occurred to me that I was pretty different-- that was the wrong kind of different. I thought I was more plain than everyone else since, in the words of one teacher who thought she was helping "brown is the most common skin tone in the world." How do we internalize all of this by such a tender age? I was not the only young person who felt this way-- it was a view I shared with and learned from my mostly white peers.
Yo' Mama.
She's so, dark, fat, nappy and big lipped. And she's on welfare. Why did the boys, both black and white love these jokes so much? They play a big role in spelling out what a woman should NOT be. My parents deftly blocked some of this, my mom went out of her way to impress upon me that dark skin is beautiful. That darker skin could be more beautiful. I knew enough to say "Hey that's not funny!" when the dark skin or nappy hair jokes came out. Sadly, I also learned that being fat and being on welfare are solely matters of Personal Responsibility(TM). And I had a pretty warped idea of what "fat" meant. My grandma has warped ideas about nappy hair. (she thinks it's gross) I know a black woman who loves her body but hides from the sun like getting a few shades darker would kill her. (do you know many of us are vitamin D deficient?) So, some of these jokes stick to us. In what ways were notions of beauty spelled out for you as a young person?
Solution
We need to see beautiful woman who are dark, fat, black american and nappy. Well, in fact, I see such woman every day. But, I do not see them in media-- and that may seem minor but I think it can have a huge impact. We need to have this beauty publicly identified an affirmed shout it from the rooftops this is what is beautiful, pretty, lovely, elegant. Use these words. Not some other almost there words, like 'curvy' or 'strong.' To correct this kind of thinking you need to go in the opposite direction with equal and opposite force. It's not enough to have one or two such icons... how many thousands of times have you seen a woman who is thin, white, with european features described as beautiful? We don't even notice it any more. It takes time to unlearn. It's not enough to decide that it is true just for ourselves, we need to make it clear for this next generation of girls-- who are bust internalizing most of the same BS we grew up with. Nor is it enough to have a few women here and there who are black but with very european features, or features not common in American black women-- that too sends a negative message. Like the white guys in college who explained to me that black woman are beautiful if they are the "right kid" of black woman. Which brings me to this last point; cultural change may start from within the black community, but this issue (which is only a small part of a larger issue that involves women of all races) is something that people of all races should think about and take up. Just as fighting homophobia is not just work for gay people-- this doesn't get solved unless we all talk about it openly. Demand better media and discover the greater spectrum of beauty.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 00:45 (UTC)I have encounter far too many people in my life who would say "everyone is beautiful" then in the next beat show that they only mean that in the most abstract sense.
When I say beauty I mean elegance, grace, loevlyness-- I'm not talking about our inner rainbow or whatever.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 00:45 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 00:45 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 00:51 (UTC)Well I think we should go in to a little more complexity.
What I mean is that we shouldn't just accept obesity as 'normal'. I have no problem if there are fashion models who happen to be fat, as long as they're not trying to make it like being overweight is a good thing because it objectively isn't.
As I said in my original post though, it would be nice if we didn't view beauty as a very narrow slice of perfection, you know? But as for fashion models, I'm of no opinion, they're payed to be that narrow slice to sell stuff, I'd rather not have them at all. :P As for toothpaste commercials and all that, I'd be perfectly happy if there we people that were a bit overweight, maybe not the paragon of a beautiful face, etc too. As I said, I think we need to not be so concerned with physical appearance overall.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 00:52 (UTC)OMG!
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 01:14 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 01:16 (UTC)Re: 2 on what is beautiful
Date: 21/12/10 01:20 (UTC)Not according to medical science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 01:26 (UTC)And are people still arguing about beauty? It's easily the most subjective thing in the world and not worth arguing over. Some people will like fat, some will like skinny.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 01:41 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 02:54 (UTC)If you can't find something worth admiring you aren't trying hard enough.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 03:01 (UTC)I'm not sure you really outline this is a coherent way and I'd like to see you elaborate on this.
Also, are you making a distinction here between aesthetic beauty and sexual attractiveness? I think there is a great deal of conflation here, not necessarily in your post, but in the topic itself whenever it is discussed and we need to be really careful about that.
We need to remember that being sexually attractive is often a powerful reason why something (or someone) can be considered beautiful, and that this type of beauty is not something that is susceptible to persusion, debate or control. You can't argue people into changing their minds if they find something sexually attractive or unattractive, because these emotions come from a part of their brain that doesn't respond to logical arguments.
Personally I don't find the personality of most black women that I have encountered in the media or in real life very attractive. But that doesn't mean I don't think they are beautiful. These are 2 related, but categorically different things.
brown is the most common skin tone in the world
I can understand why hearing that said might make you feel a certain way, but don't you think that if hearing a statement of fact feels hurtful, that the problem is not that the truth is being spoken aloud, but that you're responding to it in an unhelpful way? Isn't there another way you could interpret this kind of statement that would be self-promoting, rather than self-denigrating?
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 03:26 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 03:31 (UTC)And puppies.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 03:55 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 03:56 (UTC)Re: 2 on what is beautiful
Date: 21/12/10 03:58 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 03:59 (UTC)Re: 2 on what is beautiful
Date: 21/12/10 04:01 (UTC)Re: 2 on what is beautiful
Date: 21/12/10 04:02 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 04:05 (UTC)Not to me.
Of course, since those evil white Europeans invented racism then in some people's books pretty much anything they give the thumbs up to is EVIL.
(no subject)
Date: 21/12/10 04:08 (UTC)That was my entire point-- even potentially positive facts become negative if you have internalized the western beauty myth fully enough. The teacher, was trying to be positive-- but, media, my peers adults I knew etc. had already given me this negative framework by age 8-- and it's not like this is some rare deal-- I think you would find that most young girls who are outside of the norm go through a similar thing-- though how one responds can vary quite a bit.
I included it to show how rapid and destructive these ideas can be-- and how a few platitudes such as saying "everyone is beautiful" now and then aren't enough to patch up the damage.
Of course, the damage could be lessened if we did away with the very sexist notion that a woman's worth is closely tied to her attractiveness. And some feminist think this is enough-- I don't I think we need to address the eurocentricity of beauty standards as well.
Oh please.
Date: 21/12/10 04:13 (UTC)No it's not. America has been multicultural since its inception-- that is one of our greatest strengths. I can trace my family back over 300 years in this country and every one of those non-white people helped to shape the culture as much as anyone else.
What would America be without African influence? Native American influence? Asian influence and others... Would we have popcorn or Jazz music? Rock and Roll or Hip hop-- some of the most ironically American things are a result of our roots in places other than Europe.
Re: 2 on what is beautiful
Date: 21/12/10 04:17 (UTC)Re: Oh please.
Date: 21/12/10 04:18 (UTC)Okay, you're right. Like 90% Europe and 10% other places up till the 20th century.