[identity profile] dreadfulpenny81.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
During the heated debate last summer over the proposed health care legislation, Sarah Palin and Barack Obama kept bringing to the media the phrase 'death panels', groups of people that would decide whether or not to "pull the plug on Grandma". While Palin was misguided in her analysis (as she was trying to say that end-of-life care or the living will system was the 'death panel' when it actually wasn't), she may not have been entirely off-base.

Stories have been featured recently through several media outlets of patients in Arizona and Indiana who have been denied life-saving surgeries in the past several weeks and months due to cuts in state Medicaid budgets. In Indiana, a six-month old infant named Seth Petreikis has complete DiGeorge syndrome. A surgery that was deemed "experimental" by Medicaid was denied to him, but the company that manages Indiana's Medicaid program has offered to pay for the surgery themselves. [Source]

In Arizona, 98 people who were already approved for transplants were later told they couldn't receive the surgeries because of recent cuts to Arizona's Medicaid budget. One man was set to receive a new liver, which was donated to him by a friend who'd recently passed away. Because he couldn't pay for the $200,000 surgery, the liver went to another patient. [Source] The reason for this? On October 1, 2010, the state of Arizona removed transplants from a list of medical services that can be funded through the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (AHCCCS). Keith Olbermann is asking viewers of his show Countdown to donate in the hopes of funding the transplants. Meanwhile, Democrats in Arizona are now using the 'death panel' analogy as an attack against Gov. Jan Brewer and Arizona Republicans, who agreed to Medicaid cuts to balance their budget, despite protests from Democrats. [Source]

The 'death panels' Palin referred to have little to do with federal government action and more to do with state government blunders. There should be some legislation on the table to mandate organ transplant surgeries be paid for through all health care providers, public and private.Transplant boards are still necessary to sort through the amount of transplant candidates but at least someone who's promised a chance at renewed life wouldn't have to worry about that promise being taken away.

(no subject)

Date: 12/12/10 07:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/
Sarcasm aside, I agree and disagree. Transplants are a great miracle of modern medicine and should be encouraged, but people tend to pay so much attention to flashy technology. In a world of limited resources, where we can be sure that something will get the short stick (whether it is the government or a private insurer handling it), I am not sure that transplants should be highest on the list. Take some of that money and attract physicians into primary care and work on retaining nursing staff in hospitals, and you'll save a lot more lives.

That isn't to say I am against transplants or anything, just that people like them a lot because they provide an emotionally compelling narrative. I also realize that they aren't spending that cut money on the above things necessarily, I just thought it was interesting that you would say "There should be some legislation on the table to mandate organ transplant surgeries be paid for through all health care providers, public and private" as if this were the most important thing to be spending our money on.

(no subject)

Date: 12/12/10 18:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
If everyone has the right to transplants, does everyone have the obligation to donate organs?

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 00:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrsilence.livejournal.com
It's impossible to have an obligation to do something after you have died.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 06:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
Not at all. A person's debts, for example, must be paid of the person's estate after death. Similarly, the obligation to donate organs could be enforced after a person dies.
My point, anyway, is that if people aren't willing to donate organs, it is hypocritical for them to demand unlimited organ transplants.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 22:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrsilence.livejournal.com
Yes but the person themselves do not have that obligation, the estate has the obligation.

And of course, yes the estate could be compelled to donate, but currently I don't believe that a persons deceased body forms part of their estate, as such.

Of course, the number of organs available, even under a system of "unlimited demand" would be limit the actual donations available.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 19:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/
I don't think I implied that everyone has the right to implants, but even if they did, that doesn't mean that people have an obligation to donate. One might accept that everyone has a right to eat, but that doesn't mean that you can cannibalize your neighbor during a famine.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 20:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
A better analogy would be that if you have the right to eat, you have the obligation to contribute to the production of food.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 20:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/
This is clearly not the case, unless you think the physically and mentally handicapped have no right to eat. Unless all people have a right to eat, how do we suddenly invent a right specifically for these people simply because of their particular circumstances? There's nothing logically incoherent about saying that you have the right to a transplant (pending the availability of organs), as well as the right to eat (pending the availability of food), even if you do not or cannot contribute to either of those things.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 20:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
If a person has no organs to contribute, I'd say pull the plug. It sounds harsh, but trying to Frankenstein a person like that back to life is a noble, but most likely medically impossible task. Most people have organs, and if even half the population were willing to contribute to the organ pool, the shortages currently experienced would be greatly alleviated. To declare that everyone should get organs but no one has to give any seems a bit daft.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 20:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/
I assume you're talking about agreeing to donate organs after one's death. I agree that it is hypocritical to accept or seek a transplant for, say, a liver while refusing to donate your own healthy organs after you die, regardless of the moral / religious reasons you might have for this. I don't know if I think that this means you should not actually receive the transplant though. As long as we are judging how morally worthy someone is to receive an organ (and really that is what this discussion is), we can take into account a lot of different factors, not just a person's willingness to donate organs after their own death.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 20:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
Allocating organs based on general moral worth seems like a tricky business to me, and I wouldn't want to go down that road.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 20:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/
I agree, I just don't think that allocating organs based on more specific moral worth is any easier.

(no subject)

Date: 13/12/10 19:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/
*transplants, not implants

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