Politics and business.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

In what is perhaps a well-known joke that isn't really a joke, a psychologist came up with the Peter Principle: everyone is promoted until they reach their level of incompetence, and soon enough an entire organization is running terribly and inefficiently. We, of course, don't like to take this idea too seriously, even though some mathematical and statistical studies have been developed to test the idea.

The idea? The idea is that random promotions prevent a lot of bad things and bad leaders. This is, politically speaking, an old idea, with some ancient Greek city-states using rotating representative schemes, where people were picked and placed in charge (somewhat).

This isn't too surprising, really. We all know that our boss is a moron and that the criteria for being promoted is as arbitrary as any random scheme. After all, do we really think there is any real science behind advancement? Or are the vagaries of personal politics and business too prevalent for climbing-the-ladder to be anything other than a game of right-place/right-time? Think about it. We all know people who have been passed over or ignored who would be awesome.

Why don't they get promoted? Because they don't look right, don't act right, or don't say the right things. Society seems to complicated now to randomly select or rotate people into and out of Congress. But imagine how different things might be!

Comments

[moonchylde.livejournal.com]

Popularity contests. How well can you market yourself to your chosen audience? But I'm not sure random is better either. Some people are satisfied with their current level of responsibilities. I think the entire bureaucratic system is messed up. I hope to work for myself at some point soon.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

Some people are satisfied with their current level of responsibilities.

Yeah, I know people like this. Most of them don't want the extra hassle that comes from the next step up the ladder.

Oh, and if you want a story about popularity contests have I got one for you. A guy I know told me about his office manager. She got the job because before she'd been one of his boss's favorite strippers. I asked, and no, she had no real qualifications to be an office manager.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

I saw the same thing in technology companies I worked for. Once in management, you trade challenging, interesting, rewarding work for administration, dealing with difficult people and having budget and sales targets rammed down your throat. A lot of people more or less threatened to quit if they had to become managers.
If groups had a rotation into manager positions, I think that many would be less reluctant to take a turn at it. If being a manager is for a limited duration, they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Also, people in the group are less likely to bone their manager when they know that they might be in his or her shoes next time around. Job rotation in general has been shown to improve productivity. In an ideal world ...

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

But then every three months or whatever you've got a change in the style things are run. That just causes confusion and if you're up after someone who was popular then there's extra pressure on you.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

And what if you're a manager higher up? Do you really want to have to constantly deal with popularity contests? Odds are you're trying to run a business. You've got to deal with things the people below you aren't fully aware of so is this something you really want to deal with? No. You're going to want to put someone in charge who can do the job and be done with it.

[dv8nation.livejournal.com]

I think you're underestimating a charismatic person's ability to sway people. Someone smart and charismatic could get a lot of people to vote for them even if they aren't really good at their jobs. Look at how well that works in real politics. Never mind office politics.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I worked for two family-owned corporations. In both instances, the 'Pop' spent twenty years building a business that ran smoothly - only to turn it over to a moron son who thought he was a business genius. In both cases, the sons drove the company into bankruptcy.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a solution to the Peter Principle.

[harry-beast.livejournal.com]

I don't know if random promotions are the solution. Juries are more or less random, and I think the result is a lot of decisions about justice are made by people who are unqualified, unmotivated and generally unprepared for the responsibility that they are exercising. I wouldn't want that situation arising for high political office. On the other hand, are most politicians all that qualified, motivated (for the good of their constituents, that is) and responsible? Hmmm ...

It might be interesting to have a block of seats in Congress that are filled from a shortlist of candidates who meet certain basic, relatively objective criteria. Drawing in people with relevant knowledge and experience from various background such as academia, NGOs, social organizations, business and various professions into the political arena without forcing them through the meat grinder of party politics, fund raising and campaigning might be good for the country. Mind you, these ingenues might get eaten alive by the old school experienced politicians.

do we really think there is any real science behind advancement?
The science is there, but in my experience, science, common sense and the best interests of the organization are almost always sacrificed for personal relationships, organizational politics and personal gain. People are people, after all.

Here's an article about a comparison between executives and psychopaths.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/96/open_boss.html
The same principle probably applies to career politicians.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Yeah but not the one I vote for.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

forget the ones you vote for, what about the ones who win?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

If the one who won isn't the one I voted for, the other guy musta stole the election.

Dontcha know?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Its funny/sad because it's true.

[napoleonofcrime.livejournal.com]

It would make things more complicated, but what if the lottery determined who got to pick the new officeholder? That way, someone with no interest or expertise could at least name their better-qualified cousin to the post. At best they could make a thoughtful, serious selection from the general population.

Sadly, given the state of elections, I'd wager the results would be indistinguishable from random chance.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

But it wouldn't solve the total idiot problem. And frankly, I think that is a bigger problem.

I mean, Bruce, I ask you this as a fellow New Yorker: if Carl Palidino won a lottery that made him Gov of NY, would you feel better or worse about things?

Or worse than that, what if the lottery had selected Doug Hoffman (the jackoff Conservative who ran for NY-23)

You want to see stupidity? Pluck people from the general populace.

At least with elections we can try and minimize the idiocy of the clown in office.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

It must suck to work where you work.

My bosses are competent and I know they can do my job better than I can, which is why they are my boss(es).

And when I get better I will be promoted. Already happened once or twice. I trust it will happen again.

God I love my job.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Let me just say that this scenario is vanishingly rare in the real world.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

I second that .

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Problem with random selection is that Fred Phelps might wind up with more power than we, the electorate, would ever give him.

[napoleonofcrime.livejournal.com]

Plenty of incentive to limit the power of various political offices, then. Yay!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Doesn't avoid the fact that Phelps might wind up in the most powerful office in the land, if it's selected by lottery.

And frankly, Phelps shouldn't have one iota more power than he does already.

[napoleonofcrime.livejournal.com]

I can think of a few folks who need a lot less power than they have now. I hate the Phelps clan as much as anyone, but I'm willing to take the 300Million-1 shot if it means everyone else gets hamstrung, too.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I just don't buy it.

Instead of preventing idiots getting voted into office, we have idiots put there directly.

If the electorate isn't bright enough to vote for a decent candidate, I entirely doubt their ability to *BE* a decent official.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

With elections there is a vague degree of representation at least.

e.g. Carl Palidino does not represent NY state as a whole, hence why he lost the Gov race

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

i ♥ schoolhouse rock!

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

You speak as if people like Fred Phelps never gain power.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Where do you think he could get elected today?

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Fred Phelps? Nowhere.

No, instead you'll get someone exactly like him only smarter, smart enough to keep his mouth shut about the less socially acceptable aspects of his beliefs as he works to implement them in the background.

Fact is we could elect Phelps to any office you care to name and he couldn't do any more damage than he can do today because his beliefs are so unpopular that he could never get anyone to go along with them and as he seems to be completely incapable of keeping his mouth shut about his goals he has no chance to bring about his visions of how the world should be on the sly.

[il-mio-gufo.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmmmmm...a rotation? Oh, like volleyball? :D I see, well, it could go very well given that all the players are equally competent. I mean, we must be selecting from players on the travel-time u know