[identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Is electing a "Smart" politician overrated?

Dumb question right? Of course we want our leaders to be smart, the more they're a "Magnificent Bastard" the better.

An internet aquaintance of mine posted this thought in his blog, and while it intitially sounds ludercrous, I think he makes a good case.

Smart is as smart does, and you don't have to be particularly smart to be a good politician.

People roll thier eyes and laugh about Sarah Palin being able to see Russia from her house, yet take Nancy Pelosi seriously whe she says "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it".

Both of these comments are objectively stupid but only one demonstrates either (A) a critical failure in understanding how our government works or (B) a belief that all voters are morons.

Clearly they are both equally qualified ;)


Edit:
The full Pelosi quote was actually "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

wich is what I get for posting trolling while drunk and not doing my research.

Still aside from coming accross as condesending it demonstrates a logic failure in that not knowing what effects a law will have is a good reason not to pass it. Aside from that, as a Senetor/Congress-person reading and understanding the bills put forth is basically your job. If you're not going to do your job why should we care how smart you are?


Also maybe there should be a rule that bills can not be over 30 pages. If your plan can't be explained in less it's probably a bad Idea any way.

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Date: 26/11/10 23:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] udoswald.livejournal.com
I don't think Pelosi's statement betrays stupidity or a belief that voters are morons. It certainly didn't betray "a critical failure in understanding how our government works" since she was simply explaining how things work in government. Do you think most members of Congress read each bill from cover to cover? At best they have a lowly staffer do it and give them the gist, at worst they accept what their leadership tells them about what's in the bill. Also, any bill that passes Congress still has to be interpreted by the appropriate departments so it's entirely possible to be unsure exactly how a bill will be implemented until that review takes place.

Palin's statement betrayed a lack of depth as a person and a willingness to say completely absurd things in order to score what she felt were political points. She obviously knows she cannot see Russia from her house, especially since she lives far from the western part of Alaska and even someone there would probably have a hard time seeing mainland Russia from their house. She was trying to dodge a question about her foreign policy experience and she tripped over her brain (what there is of it).

I have no way to know if Palin honestly thought the viewers would be satisfied with her answer, or if she was just too stupid to come up with a better one, but if the first is true it does indeed show "a belief that all voters are morons." Pelosi was simply pointing out a truth about the way Congress works, nobody expects to read every bill from front to back and by claiming otherwise the Republicans were just trying to score political points and bring the whole process to a screeching halt (it would have taken months for every member of Congress to read the entire bill).

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Date: 27/11/10 00:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrbogey.livejournal.com
'Palin's statement betrayed a lack of depth as a person and a willingness to say completely absurd things in order to score what she felt were political points. She obviously knows she cannot see Russia from her house, especially since she lives far from the western part of Alaska and even someone there would probably have a hard time seeing mainland Russia from their house. She was trying to dodge a question about her foreign policy experience and she tripped over her brain (what there is of it).'

Whew...it's a good thing you did so much research on the topic and missed the glaringly obvious issue of how Tina Fey said it and not Palin.

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Some obsession.

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Re: Some obsession.

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Date: 27/11/10 01:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
When Pelosi said that she doesn't read the bills she votes for, or when she explained how things work in government if you prefer, she was indicating that she doesn't apply her enormous intellectual talents to the task of legislating. What's worse? Not having much of a brain, or having one, but not using it?

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Date: 27/11/10 01:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
A few minor points here-Palin did not say this. Tina Fey as a caricature of Palin said this. It's like Beam Me Up Scotty.

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Date: 28/11/10 10:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Do you think most members of Congress read each bill from cover to cover?

Nope, and even if they did, how would a non-specialist be any competent to vote on a specific legislation that they just dont understand?

they accept what their leadership tells them about what's in the bill

In most cases, yes. They dont need to read it since they already know what vote they're required to cast on the matter. The entire system is fucked up.

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Date: 26/11/10 23:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
We need smart people to run shit.
Philosopher kings, ftw.

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Date: 26/11/10 23:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
I like dumb politicians. At least that way, we're fighting dumb evil and not the smart kinds. NARF!

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Date: 26/11/10 23:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mybodymycoffin.livejournal.com
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

As in, once the bill is passed, you'll see all the bullshit Republicans were raving about during its formation and passage (death panels, &al.) were just lies and/or hysteria.

I'm giving you F- on your report but a 5/10 on the troll scale. You'd get a 10 but I'm not sure your misquote is intentional.

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Date: 26/11/10 23:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mybodymycoffin.livejournal.com
Also, no, of course we don't want dumb people governing us. That's retarded. Sarah Palin understands how to squeeze every last dollar from her fanbase, but that's it.

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Date: 27/11/10 00:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
We need to hire smart managers. Honestly, most of the work for politicians is done by recent college graduates. They just give speeches.

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Date: 27/11/10 00:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Er... elect* smart managers. This is what I get for watching Hyperdrive while trying to think seriously.

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Date: 27/11/10 01:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
The only difference between what Pelosi said and what Palin said is that Pelosi actually said we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it. Palin never said you can see Russia from her house. That was Tina Fey.

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Date: 27/11/10 01:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/aviation_/
Do people really confuse SNL with real life this much? It is sort of disheartening.

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Date: 27/11/10 01:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tridus.livejournal.com
I'm kind of torn on this. On the one hand, smart politicians are good because you want people actually capable of understanding complex issues passing laws on them, instead of just doing whatever lobby group X says.

On the other hand... smart politicians tend to do that anyway. They also have a tendancy to twist themselves into knots trying to simplify difficult issues into media-friendly sound bites, or trying to appear more "normal" to win public approval. That drives me nuts. If I really wanted "normal" to be elected, I'd vote for mediocrity rather then the smart guy attempting to be mediocre.

See: Michael Ignatieff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ignatieff).

(My favorite The West Wing moment was probably the episode where they spend the whole thing trying to make Bartlett more "folksy", but no matter what they do he's always seen as arrogant. Then they realize that no matter what he'll be seen as arrogant... so he can actually ACT arrogant without being hurt by it. I know that's not reality, but I sure wish it was.)

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Date: 27/11/10 01:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
The thing is that a Magnificent Bastard has to be smart at minimum at PR if nothing else (*coughRommelcough*). The thing is that a truly dumb person wouldn't be in politics in the first place, and certainly would not know how to find someone able to make use of the megabucks he/she rakes in for a campaign. Talk of "stupid" politicians ignores the actual stupid people are on Reality TV.

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Date: 27/11/10 04:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reality-hammer.livejournal.com
There are different kinds of intelligence. There are also things like commons sense/wisdom and being a good judge of character.

I know people with PhDs who literally can't tie their shoes without falling over. They shouldn't be anywhere near political office. I also know people who never went to college who would make fine politicians.

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Date: 27/11/10 04:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prader.livejournal.com
Is electing a "Smart" politician overrated?

No. So long as they are also wise, just, and Constitutionally minded. Unfortunately, most politicians- smart or dumb- are already compromised well before actually being elected.

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Date: 27/11/10 09:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrsilence.livejournal.com
I think high intelligence is absolutely essential, the problem lies in how we measure intelligence.

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Date: 27/11/10 10:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Re: all this hubbub around "seeing Russian territory" from Alaska (because THAT was what Palin said, and nothing about her house),

meet the Diomede Islands.

http://www.slate.com/id/2200155/

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Date: 27/11/10 14:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
Well, see that's the problem -- she was, in her typically inelegant fashion, saying something that was true, but was utterly trivial and nonresponsive to the question about her governship of Alaska as a foreign policy credential.

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From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 27/11/10 18:12 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 27/11/10 10:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
And Re: the North Korea - South Korea slip up.

Meet the United States of America, now with 57 states.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Really. If we're to REALLY discuss Palin's intellect, we better focus on some more serious stuff, like, say, her stances on particular policies.

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From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com - Date: 27/11/10 15:14 (UTC) - Expand

Idiocracy?

Date: 27/11/10 10:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Quitters are as quitters do.
Edited Date: 27/11/10 10:53 (UTC)

Re: Idiocracy?

Date: 27/11/10 17:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
People who pal around with terrorists with ministers who are connected to murderous mobs, no less. I remain convinced that if Sarah Palin were Sarah Bint Sulaiman and her preacher the same she'dve not even been elected Mayor of Wasilla.

Re: Idiocracy?

From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 28/11/10 00:44 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com - Date: 27/11/10 22:16 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 27/11/10 17:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
As others have pointed out, Nancy Pelosi's comment only sounds that way if you cut the rest of what she said out. Since you're not on Fox, it would probably make you look smarter if you actually included that.

There's no comparing to the Moe, Larry and Curly of the political quote world consisting of Quayle, W, and Palin.

Problem is.....

Date: 27/11/10 17:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Even though Bush put on airs of being a dipshit he got a lot more done with less control of both houses of Congress through both terms than Obama has had any point since taking office. Of course an easy point is that if you make GWB look *better* then that says a lot more about his successor than it does about Bush.

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Date: 29/11/10 05:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Wow, this was going along, got around 70, I look away, and come back and it's 300!

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Date: 29/11/10 21:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penguin42.livejournal.com
Wow two misquotes that are both heavily-played memes. I think you just unintentionally summed up what's wrong with our political discourse these days.

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Date: 29/11/10 22:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ccr1138.livejournal.com
Somebody has probably already pointed out that Palin didn't make the remark about Russia, Tina Fey did on SNL while impersonating her. AFAIK Palin hasn't said anything nearly so stupid as that Pelosi remark.

I'd vote for a below-average IQ politician who shares my political views before I'd vote for a genius who doesn't.