Chauvinism: How should we address it in schools?

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

The story goes that a college proffessor stood before a science class of undergraduates and finished a lecture by saying
"Ladies and gentlemen, in the next 20-30 years, you will discover that half of what I told you was incorrect. sadly, I am in no position to tell you which half that will be."

You may think that the advances of Scientific discovery make science unique, but it seems that a lot of what I learned at school has been incorrect. I was in primary school in the 1960s, and left school to go to work in '73.

Some of the teachers I had were fresh out of college, but some were older men and women who had served in the Armed Forces. they had actually lived through the Blitz on London, had been on bombing missions over Germany. they had seen post war news reels about the Nuremburg War Trails and the aftermath of the surrender of Japan. they, and the people fresh out of ollege, who had lived through the war years as children and younge teens, were all eager to make sure that we, the kids born in peacetime, realised that the peacful world that we grew up in had been hard fought for. It was up to us to make the sacrifices worth it, and to make the peace last.

Perhaps I took the message to heart more than most, for I seem to have been one of the few who took an active interest in social history, modern history and politics. I wonder what my old teachers would make of today's society if i met them in the street - but I digress.

There were certain statements that people my age have grown up 'learning' and accepting as fact.
they were told to us by adults, as well as our teachers, by people who were there at the time, even if they only read it on the news.

A lot of the 'facts' surrounding the Second World War have come up for re examination, and new findings and announcements have always upset certain people , I noticed. Even so it still got said. The post war generation, myself included listened to the spokespeople for CND and other organisations telling us that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both purely civilian targets; that Japan was all but totally exausted by the end of the war, and that the Americans dropped the Bomb because it had to justify the expense of producing it somehow.

Somehaow, nothing seems to be able to catch up with a rumour, once you give it a head start.
it wasn't till I started going on the internet, at around the age of 45, that I began to learn the truth about such things. I learned that there were military installations of great significance at both those cities in Japan. And that although the Japanese were hoping for a peaceful settlement, the terms they wanted included keeping all the territory thay had gained. moreover, the alternative to dropping the bomb was either the US and UK invading Japan and suffering many more casualties as a result, along with a Japanese death toll, or maybe letting the russians do it for us and leaving them in charge of tokyo at the end of the war, like they were left in charge of East Germany. So, the descision to drop the Bomb or not was not so clear cut as some led me to believe.

Another piece of received wisdom I got was that Japan had committed many atrocities in the Second World War, against the Americans, who they attacked without warning at Pearl Harbour; against British and Australian POWs in their camps; against the peoples of South East Asia, especially Koreans, and the women that they enslaved to serve as prostitutes to the Japanese troops - known in Japan as ' comfort women'. Even now, the story went, the Japanese government has never apologised or made any reparations to any of these people. not even owned up to the japanese children of today about what had happened in the past.

Well, the atrocities did happen, it seems, but the bit about them never apologising - well, take a look at the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan#Apology_rebuffed

If you want to go through the list, it is all there.

The truth is out there. But how to get at it and deal with it when it arrives i something that should be taught at secondary school, I feel.

Perhaps the average ten year old is incapable of listening to two conflicting opinions- I don't know. But in the final years at secondary school, but I think that they ought to teach kids that 'My country, right or wrong', as the Frenchman Chauvin said, isn't a sensible option to take these days. Anti chavinism studies should be mandatory, producing better citizens and lesspolitical lobby fodder.

We do kids a disservice if we don't teach them the value of going to primary sources, of the techniques that proffessional historians use in interpreting documents and other peices of evidence. Of basic critical thinking skills.

It's been a long time since I left school, and maybe they do these days. But I look at the way conspiracy theories abound and I begin to wonder. How can we improve our children's chances of making sense of an increasingly complex world, I ask you?

At least I am glad of the internet, and the chance to meet in communities where the facts are discussed and you get to hear a wider range of opinions than the TV or newspapers offer. My warmest thanks to those on the internet who continue my education. Especially the person who sent me that link. _wanderer_, the username was.

Comments

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

No country could survive without some patriotic backbone to it.
Oh , this is whee I beg to disagree.

We should care about justice and fairness. About humanity and the kids who will come after us. About the environment even and the little fishes that swim in the sea. But not about mere National Interest.

Nationalism is a curse upon mankind.
Yes, I am proud that the Tollpuddle Martyrs came from England, like the Barons who drew up the Magna Carta, and so was Shakespeare, and Benjamin Britten. i am glad to have what they gave me as my birthright, for the beauty of enlish literature and music as well as legal rights.

But I also recognise people like Galileo, Ghandi and Francis of Asissi, for these too were great men who enriched humanity.

We should learn to appreciate greatness wherever we see it, accept the truth wherever it leads. To do otherwise diminishes us as people.

[magna-carter.livejournal.com]

Britain's main brand of patriotism is moaning about everything :)

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

I think the way that "facts" seemed to change was what turned me off to history in grade school. I had high marks and enjoyed every subject but in history I just cried a lot and got sent out of the room for arguing. In retrospect, I was wrong some of those times and I was right others. I just could not get over the fact that the teacher would tell us something I knew to be false and silence all questions or decent.

I would bring in books from home and from the library to prove my points. After the first few times the teacher came to say "check it at the door!" And I'd have to empty the "wrong" history books from my bag leaving them on the on the teacher's desk until class was over: lest I launch in to a rant where I'd read passages that I'd booked marked in anticipation of what he would teach that day.

I know this sounds oppressive, but I really was out-of-line, all of my energy for teen-aged rebellion went in to fighting the LIES ZOMG in history class. And I went overboard at times. And I guess in some was I've never grown up.

I can relate to the reflective process you describe of seeing the world again for the first time.

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

I know this sounds oppressive, but I really was out-of-line,

I think it was oppressive. it is fair to say " these are the answers that will pass yr exams" - one teacher actually said that over Medieval History , once, becasue he didn't agree with the book he was teaching from!

But to take a bunch of valid objections and just bury them , or fail to point out that certain things are disputed and disagreed with even now is something else.

For the record, my history Teacher was not of the opinion that Richard III was actually a hunchback , and wasn't satisfied that he really did murde the princes in the Tower- but he did point out that orthodox opinion says he was, and blamed this all on Williaam Shakespeare's awfully biased pro - Tudor propaganda.

[magna-carter.livejournal.com]

That's awesome. That you fought back, I mean.

I agree with Minty, a simple 'these are the answers which will gain you marks in exams' would have gone a long way. If I was your teacher, I'd have asked for you to keep it to the end of class, and would have discussed everything with you...
But then, I was really lucky to have teachers who nurtured my rebellion, rather than trying to quash it. My Spanish teacher didn't like me very much and often sent me to the head teachers' office (for incorrect uniform, too much eyeliner, or similar) and he'd laugh and tell me to keep up the good work. The headteacher. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but now I think it's weird.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

History like every other science changes with the years. The reason the White House and Capitol are painted white is that the Founders' era was one where scholars believed Romans lived in a world of whitewashed buildings. We know now that the Romans were as fond of gaudiness and garishness as we are.

I've given up on fighting all the lies about history I see and focus on the ones that keep coming up over and over again. Like US Grant being a butcher in the Civil War. The single Civil War general with the highest combat casualties was Robert E. Lee and the Overland Campaign became one of attrition on Lee's design, not Grant's.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/libertarianism/2765192.html

[oportet.livejournal.com]

If you taught kids that there was a possibility the government knew Pearl Harbor would be attacked before it actually happened, that might hurt military recruitment numbers.

(Not that I believe that - just an example of a possible 'wrong' you might just want to keep on the down-low without absolute proof)

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

Oh - I know that ' word on the street' is that 'they' wanted there to be an incident that got Americans good and riled so that recruiting for a foriegn war would be a whole lot easier.

Just as a matter of interest, I also happen to know that radar operators were ringing into HQ saying they had big blips on the screen and were told 'relax, it's too early on Sunday to be something serious', or words to that effect.

Me, I think there is room to say that the Americans in charge at Pearl made what we Brits call ' a cock up' - they misunderestimate the risk the Japanese posed.

Never shout 'conspiracy' when 'sheer official incompetance' will do nicely. There is an awful lot of it around to be seen when you know where to look. :)

On the night that Coventry was flattened, the story goes that Churchill knew what was coming, but never warned people in the target area b/coz ' we didn't want to let the Germans know how well we could track incoming raids.'

The truth is that the ARP never got their act together and sent the right ppl the right messages - according to a BBC documentary I watched some yrs back.

And still some say that the Beeb were just part of the cover up. Meh !

[thies.livejournal.com]

little known, the nuclear bombing was on the brink of being ineffective http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_Incident

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

According to the link, there were some in the Japanese miltary that attempted a coup d'etat in order to prevent japan from surrendering.

Troops loyal to the Emperor took steps to prevent the rebellion succeding , and the Emperor made reference to the bomb as being why Japan could not go on - not the fact that Russia had entered the war against japan now that Hitler had been defeated in the West.

But, no - I never knew about the coup d'etat.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Actually this is by now a standard interpretation among Scholars. What's really little-known is that Battle of Khalkin Ghol.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

My ancestors were Saxon; I'm still waiting for an apology from the Normans.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Not before you apologize to the Celts. :-P

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

Mine too - u win the intanetz this afternoon. :-)

[thies.livejournal.com]

sorry

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That's nothing. I'm waiting for an apology from the birds for the Dinosaurs reducing mammals to their shadow for 150 years. XP.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

It may seem naive to say it, but we are generally trusting creatures. When somebody tells us something, we will believe them in the absence of a reason to not believe them. This space of human acceptance is exactly where things like conspiracy theories, special science and "real facts" exist. I mean, it just isn't in our nature to dismiss almost everything we are told.

It's taken me five years to condition the skeptical response. To simply stop believing everything someone tells me. It is actually quite hard. You're just going to generally accept something given to you, unless there is a clear contradiction present.

This is why information and propaganda works. Even if you have a conscious rejection of the message, it will still affect your information flow, and will thus affect your thinking, whether or not you believe it. Cognitive effect.

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

Yeah , I know I ought to go check up on what you just said, but it sounds quite reasonable, actually ! :-)

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's completely plausible. Wait a minute!

[http://users.livejournal.com/-wanderer-/]

When I was in US history in high school, our teacher supplemented the class with readings from Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. I thought the book was so fascinating that I bought my own copy and read all the chapters we skipped in class.

I loved the book and still have fond memories of discovering what seemed like hidden treasure reading it. I pretty much accepted the book as fact, but as an adult I hope that I have become a little bit more discriminating. Some conventional history really is true, so I guess my experience is the opposite of yours but still somewhat analogous.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That's.......not really wise. Zinn cited from David Irving which sends immediate red flags as to the validity of his other sources. Not to mention his history gives the US government far more cleverness and functionality than has ever realistically been had by any version of it.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

OK, by this point I'm wondering WTF is with the obsession with the Japanese. To use an example that's rather closer to home for me, my state joined the Confederacy and participated in a war fought to safeguard rights of a small minority to wealth gained in buying, trafficking, breeding, and forced labor of other human beings. Louisiana troops were implicated in at least a few of the massacres of USCT during the war, and after it during the Reconstruction era my state saw even nastier things.

The rise of Jim Crow here was concurrent with vicious, brutal paramilitaries that suppressed white opposition and returned to massacring blacks at places like Colfax. Before I damn PM Abe for his bowing at Shinto shrines to the WWII war criminals, I think it's important my state acknowledges certain aspects of our history as the Colfax Massacre and the way the Civil War here was really fought, which was an extremely brutal conflict between local Unionists and Traitor paramilitaries.

Louisiana alone, to say nothing of the rest of the United States, has enough work to do with our own problems that I really feel that is most important to address. Japan in any case depends on us for their military protection and won't be reviving a real military any time soon.

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

My 'obsession ' as you put it stems mainly from the fact that I was a little less involved in the ACW, but that August 6th is also a date that any CND supporter will tell you is the day that Hiroshima was bombed.
And the anniversary is still marked, unofficially in the UK by the fact that it will still make the front pages in many newspapers.

this is down to the fact that the government is closed for summer and on a slow news day editors will look around for things to write about.

This year, we have Obama talking of going to Japan . Is he gonna apologise? What really happened back then ? Was it really justifiable? Cue more features on the POWs who were in the camps run by the japanese, interviews with people who fought in the war, editorials and all sorts.

It isn't that I obsess about japan exclusively - there is environmentalism , the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior by the French, the whole sorry mess that Britain has got into because it lacked an effective opposition to the muppets in charge, and dammit, it still does...
Just don't get me started, ok? ;-)

[ccr1138.livejournal.com]

I think the appropriate time to teach these principles is in middle school, at the earliest. Children are not developmentally ready to understand the "gray areas" until then.

Also, I think a great deal of our current problems stem from patriotism no longer being taught in schools. Yes, we are not perfect, but there's also a lot of good to be said about democracy, capitalism, etc., that kids aren't hearing about. Thus you end up with a bunch of ignorant snots wearing "Che" t-shirts as if a murderous thug is somebody to look up to.