DINKY people and Europe's negative birth rate

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

All over Europe, people are using contraception.
Well, smart people are. Instead of having half a dozen kids or more, smart couples are having just a couple of kids - sometimes , no kids at all, and spending the money that would have gone on kiddy clothes and baby food on consumer durables and ski trips in Switzerland.

And now, the neocons are worried.
see, my wife and I are both DINKYs - a DINKY is like a Yuppy, but stands for Double Income , No Kids Yet. And seeing as we are both in our 50s, I think the Yet is permanent in our case.

So, when we retire, there are no kids to take our place in the workforce.
OMG! the Neocons wail - hhow can you abandon us? how can you walk away and leave the wheels of industry unmanned? Who will provide the cannon fodder for our next bloody and imperialst war?
Who will work in our factories, clean our cars and do our dirty work for the crap wages we are willing to pay?

And we answer " you told us that you never owed us a living. We therefore think that we don't owe it to you to have any kids. I dunno who will, but just be certain that we won't."

And, as birthrates plummet, and smart women see to it that they don't have kids that the capitalists need to keep the system going, the neocons reach for the panic button. they will import immigrants, they will shout about the joys of motherhood. And smart women will laugh and go on ski trips to switzerland instead of plodding behind a pram through Tescos.

I bet that Mrs Thatcher wishes she had never said ' there is no such thing as society. i bet she wishes she had laid on creches, championed the Welfare state and made motherhood a lot easier and desireable, instead of sneering at the poor. But it's too late Mrs T. Your system kicked us in the face, so we took the Child Free option. Enjoy your bleak and child free future while it lasts.

Comments

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Lol while I have no love for the Quiverfull folks (my sister is on in spirit if not actuality) I must say I find your attitude refreshingly suicidal.

See Socialism or any other ism requires the next generation just as much as Capitalism and as for war, well as the US is proving rather effectively the days of needing to mobilize your entire country's youth to fight one are over. Technology acting as a force multiplier allows a for so much smaller armies to be as effective as the ones fielded in the past that it would be generations before the western nations did not have enough soldiers to maintain their military dominance over the 3rd world (and most of the 2nd)

On the other hand, what you are doing by having this cavalier attitude about your birth rate is sacrificing your civilization and culture to extinction. Sure, bringing in immigrants to maintain a small shortfall in birth rate is not damaging, there will never be enough of them to overwhelm your society and remake it in their image and by the 2nd or 3rd generation they will have assimilated into your culture enough that they are effectively locals. But, if you're facing the birth rates significantly below 1.5 that are occurring across most of southern and eastern Europe you will quickly reach a point where the number if immigrants you have to bring in is a significant percentage of your total population just to maintain basic infrastructure. When 20 or 30% of your population is first generation immigrants and another 30% is second generation then the immigrants will stop assimilating and simply maintain their own culture and since they are out breeding you it will only be 2 or 3 generations later when your kids start assimilating into their culture and yours is relegated to the dustbin of history.

Now don't get me wrong, if all of Europe has for whatever reason decided to commit cultural suicide that is their right, but don't try to frame it as some noble effort. Simply put you're all to selfish to care about anything but yourselves and way too selfish to bother raising children. It might make for a nice life for you (for a while, if you;re lucky to be at the start of the wave) but in the end you are doing the world a favor by removing your obviously defective genes from the gene pool anyway.

[torpidai.livejournal.com]

When 20 or 30% of your population is first generation immigrants and another 30% is second generation then the immigrants will stop assimilating and simply maintain their own culture and since they are out breeding you it will only be 2 or 3 generations later when your kids start assimilating into their culture and yours is relegated to the dustbin of history.

We're not that far away from that here in Lancashire, most of the Christian Churches have been converted to flats, yet 3 Mosques are in the process of being built, all I need is a sniper rifle (and a get out of jail free card) if they start yelling from the minarets :@

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

Cultural change happens. You should try not to fear the inevitable.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

You misunderstand.

I have no fear of cultural change. In fact I embrace it.

For example, in the US we have a similar but much smaller scale problem in that our native population is procreating at just below a replacement level and has been for the last 40 years of so. However unlike the birth rates seen in Europe which are typically in the 1.3 to 1.5 range in the US it is roughly 2.05 (with 2.1 being replacement level for an advanced country).

This means that for the US we only need import a half million or so people every year to maintain a stable population and as such first generation immigrants would never need to be in excess of about 10% of the population (which is not to say it won't become so, that is a factor of how much immigration actually occurs as opposed to what is needed).

With only 10% of the country being immigrants and another 10% being the children of immigrants it gives the culture the vibrancy that categorized the American Cultural melting pot where the culture is changed by each group of immigrants with the best elements from their culture being adopted into ours.

However, if your immigrant population is a much larger percentage of the population, to the point where it is rivaling (and in some areas exceeding the native population) then the immigrants do not assimilate. The rebuild their existing cultures on the spot (this can also happen if there is systematic discrimination against them) and there is no melding of the cultures, no taking the best from each and forging something new and better than the sum of it's parts, there is only cultural replacement with the immigrant culture overwhelming and supplanting the native one.

The problem is not one of cultural change but cultural annihilation.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

No, I do understand. I just don't see this as anything to get worked up about.

You cannot step twice into the same river. The new culture that the immigrants bring isn't going to be a replica of their culture at home, it's going to be something new and interesting. I'm excited!

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

I hereby award you a 'decent comment in response to my OP' badge.
Wear it with pride, young man!

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

~but don't try to frame it as some noble effort. Simply put you're all to selfish to care about anything but yourselves and way too selfish to bother raising children. It might make for a nice life for you (for a while, if you;re lucky to be at the start of the wave) but in the end you are doing the world a favor by removing your obviously defective genes from the gene pool anyway.~

Heavens no !
The Blessed Thatcher herself stated " we are all individuals - there is no such thing as society".
in other words "We don't have to look after you - you are on yr own .
Ok sweetheart. So, don't come looking at me to pop out sprogs to keep your system going! Sounds perfectly fair to me, but I stand rebuked for my selfishness - by the very people who bottled " Looking out for #1" and sold it to us as a remedy for all social ills.

I dunno about my genes being "defective" - a screwdriver makes a lousy saw and vice versa. my genes get me around on the internet and that's all I ask of them, most of the time.

And european civilisation is nice - like chocolate ice cream , but lets be honest, niether were bult to last and niether one are going to.
Another thousand yrs and I seriously wonder how many of your descendants will be around. Or anyone else's come to that.