DINKY people and Europe's negative birth rate

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

All over Europe, people are using contraception.
Well, smart people are. Instead of having half a dozen kids or more, smart couples are having just a couple of kids - sometimes , no kids at all, and spending the money that would have gone on kiddy clothes and baby food on consumer durables and ski trips in Switzerland.

And now, the neocons are worried.
see, my wife and I are both DINKYs - a DINKY is like a Yuppy, but stands for Double Income , No Kids Yet. And seeing as we are both in our 50s, I think the Yet is permanent in our case.

So, when we retire, there are no kids to take our place in the workforce.
OMG! the Neocons wail - hhow can you abandon us? how can you walk away and leave the wheels of industry unmanned? Who will provide the cannon fodder for our next bloody and imperialst war?
Who will work in our factories, clean our cars and do our dirty work for the crap wages we are willing to pay?

And we answer " you told us that you never owed us a living. We therefore think that we don't owe it to you to have any kids. I dunno who will, but just be certain that we won't."

And, as birthrates plummet, and smart women see to it that they don't have kids that the capitalists need to keep the system going, the neocons reach for the panic button. they will import immigrants, they will shout about the joys of motherhood. And smart women will laugh and go on ski trips to switzerland instead of plodding behind a pram through Tescos.

I bet that Mrs Thatcher wishes she had never said ' there is no such thing as society. i bet she wishes she had laid on creches, championed the Welfare state and made motherhood a lot easier and desireable, instead of sneering at the poor. But it's too late Mrs T. Your system kicked us in the face, so we took the Child Free option. Enjoy your bleak and child free future while it lasts.

Comments

[prisoner--24601.livejournal.com]

And, as birthrates plummet, and smart women see to it that they don't have kids that the capitalists need to keep the system going, the neocons reach for the panic button. they will import immigrants, they will shout about the joys of motherhood. And smart women will laugh and go on ski trips to switzerland instead of plodding behind a pram through Tescos.

Wow, you're pretty damned condescending to people who choose to have children. Does it occur to you that people might actually like to have children or do you think that everyone who has kids has been hoodwinked by their evil capitalist overlords?

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

It could have been sarcasm. It must have.

[prisoner--24601.livejournal.com]

It's hard to tell. I hope that it is sarcasm, but I've met seen a lot of smug child free people spout off in all seriousness just like this (even right here on live journal where there are entire communities dedicated to it) about how they're so much smarter, morally superior and environmentally conscious than everyone else because they choose not to have children.

I guess I should be glad that he doesn't refer to mothers as "moos" and parents as "breeders" the way that a lot of them do.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

Frankly I read the whole post as a sort of tough satire. So I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I cannot imagine someone seriously trying to find all sorts of excuses for not having children and seeking for reasons and explanations elsewhere other than within themselves. If that were serious, then it would be a very disingenuous thing.

[tridus.livejournal.com]

I can. There are a staggering number of people with completely out to lunch opinions on everything.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

When you've searched within yourself and found no reasons for having children, and then people try to pressure you with external reasons why you should, I can see how this kind of defensiveness is the result.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Then check out a few of the "Child Free" communities that exist on LJ.

Even if you don't want children yourself you're likely to be horrified by the attitude and thoughts expressed there and yes more than a few of them believe that they are living up to some higher purpose by not having children.

Public service announcement.

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

Just so u know.
This community has a habit of getting it's nix in a twist.

Just because I hate the idea of using kids as pawns in so called 'culture wars', I do not refer to mothers as 'moos' or 'breeders'.
I do not belong to any Child-free communities, I just do not see myself as fulfilling some Higher Purpose, just because I refuse to help raise racist imperialists who will pollute this planet and grow up and vote Tory.

Anyone who suggests otherwise risks getting a bucket of weapons grade snark lobbed in their general direction.

Re: Public service announcement.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

Not all child free communities are bad. Childfree_zone is one where it's not allowed to disparage children or people who have them. It's not very active though.

Re: Public service announcement.

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

I understand that this may be a sensitive subject for you so I will not "pressure" you on anything.

Just one question. Have you thought about serving society in a noble way by adopting a child?

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

Ok , lets say that I know a lot of friends who have had kids - and they still invite us round for sunday lunch.

What has prompted this was a neocon who seemed to be upbraiding my parents for not having a couple of dozen sprogs. i mean , didn't I realise that the world needs cheap labour and taxpayers to make up for all the taxes that his class are presumably going to avoid by using tax havens?

It is not total sarcasm, i have thought about wether I want to have kids and said no. OTOH, I know some delightful people under the age of 20, and I am glad I know them, and their parents are to be congratulated for bringing them up.
But no, if you don't want kids yourself, it isn't your public duty to have them , like it is to pay your taxes and vote Green.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

You must be using the term "neocon" in some other way than it's used in the U.S.

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

I thought it was generic.
I mean someone who considers the idea that Free markets are wunnerful and who thinks that it's the poor people who are soley to blame for being poor.

I meant ' thatcherite', but didn't really think people in the USa would get that. So, what is the difference between a Thatcherite and a Neocon exactly? Isn't it an abbreviation of 'neo - conservative'?

[sealwhiskers.livejournal.com]

Not much of a difference, except some cultural ones.

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

I mean someone who considers the idea that Free markets are wunnerful and who thinks that it's the poor people who are soley to blame for being poor.

That's not what it means in the U.S. Neocons in the U.S. are people who claim to be conservative but actually are pro-war as a foreign policy tool, in favor of government control over lots of things in the name of security (including the market), and are generally liberal on economics and conservative on some social issues.

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

Oh, right!In which case, read "Thatcherite" and understand that such people want to roll back the Welfare State, and believe that the interests and the values of the mega rich are the only ones that matter.

Thatcher has said that anyone who uses public transport above a certain age should consider themselves a failure, that there is "no such thing as Society", and was famous for taking free milk away from school children.

The current crop of British Conservatives has been forced to climb down and admit that there Is such a thing as Society- but insist that it isn't the smae thing as the State.

I might do an OP here on this.
One other difference is that in the USA, Red = Republican = conservative, while Blue = Democrat = progressive/ liberal.

In the UK Blue = Conservative = conservative with a small c, while Red = Labour = Socialism. Well, Labour *used to equal Socialism , but its critics say it abandoned Socialist principles years ago!

[gunslnger.livejournal.com]

believe that the interests and the values of the mega rich are the only ones that matter.

I think your definition of Thatcherite is flawed here too.

Yes, the State and Society are different things.

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

Livejournal cf folks are a special breed -- but presumably, they'll be extinct before long.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

I didn't see this as a judgment on people who have children. The woman who figures out that it wouldn't be best for her to have children and then doesn't have them is smart, but this doesn't mean that the woman who wants children and then has them is not smart. Obviously, nobody has kids for the sole purpose of keeping the capitalist machine going, and nobody avoids it solely for that reason either.

[prisoner--24601.livejournal.com]

I gotta disagree. He painted a picture where smart women are the ones who shake their fist at the system as they go on vacation instead of buying into corporate propaganda about the joys of motherhood and trudging oppressed behind baby stroller.

If he was trying to make the point you just made (which is an entirely legitimate point), then he failed horribly.

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

Well, it was in reaction to someone who seemed to be implying that my mother was somehow 'letting the side down by not having at least half a dozen.

So, I didn't get rave reviews. I guess I can live with that.

[green-man-2010.livejournal.com]

Does it occur to you that people might actually like to have children

Oh , sure - I know several people who fit the bill.

Ok, this was unintended collateral damage.
I promise not to use weapons grade snark near innocent civilians again. Even if I get ticked off at neocons, I will in future drop leaflets first, advising of incoming snark and let them clear the area of non combatants. Failure to do so will be condemned as a failure on their part to protect innocent parties from the resulting damage that their policies cause when I attack them.
Happy now?