Supreme Decision: The VFW gets its Mojave acre

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

Here is a Greenwire article about the recent Supreme Court decision to side with the Dept. of Interior on its transfer of an acre of land to the VFW in order to preserve a religious icon. This is a pretty mundane issue, but some purists may agree with the minority that this is a support of a specific cult. It may seem strange that the VFW chose the symbolic tree of state killing to commemorate WW-I deaths. At least they don't set it on fire like the guys in that white supremacist organization.

I feel sorry for all of those families of war dead who are not members of the cult in question. I don't have any immediate family who participated in that conflict. If I did, I would not feel that the VFW represented those members.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the VFW monument in the national park, especially since they will own the land under the monument. What are your esteamed opinions on the matter?

Comments

[blorky.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much ok with it as long as every other cult gets to put up their commemoration status. (If memory serves, this was started because the Buddhists asked to put up a memorial on the grounds and were denied.)

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

One man's cult is another man's all encompassing belief.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

A religion ceases to be a cult around the time it burns its first heretic.....

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

This kind of stuff just doesn't bother me that much. I mean I don't really think the government needs to spend money building or maintaining religious symbols, but allowing a private actor to do it is fine. Especially when this is something that has been there for a while.

But really its just kind of a BFD issue.

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

My opinions are more egrilled than esteamed.

[debergerac.livejournal.com]

vitally important issues such as this personally leave me eraged.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

And my opinions are ebroiled......

Grilling...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... is certainly a better way to go with meat, but vegetables deserve the steam.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

Considering the cross stood there for 60 years before it was government land - and before anyone's panties got in a twist over it - I would suggest everyone try getting a life.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

No. It stood there for 60 years ON government land. They sold it in a no-bid sale (aka gave it away) to the VFW to prevent Buddhists from putting their religious symbol near it.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

I feel sorry for all of those families of war dead who are not members of the cult in question.

Why?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

Because, by being honored by a cult different from their own their wrathful gods damn them to eternal hellfire.

To have someone other than a co-religionist honor your sacrafice in any way is one of the greatest abominations a dead soldier can commit.

It's quite simple...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... they have been marginalized by the VFW. It's like being treated as a second-class citizen.

[jerseycajun.livejournal.com]

When one of these monuments begins to exert coercive forces which limits the expression of freedom of religion or lack thereof of the public, then I will be suitably concerned.

When one thinks of all the things which government has the capacity (historically) to do to screw you over, to be concerned or worried over the effect an inanimate object will have over you and the damage it might do to your liberties seems a might bit misplaced.

Ostensibly, one could conceive that a monument bearing a swastika would be more onerous to more people, and yet being a secular symbol, not run afoul of the principle with which the plaintiffs choose to make their case. Yet neither a monument featuring a cross nor a swastika in such cases has any further capacity to cause demonstrable harm than the other, at least of the type which is argued most in these cases.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

When one of these monuments begins to exert coercive forces which limits the expression of freedom of religion or lack thereof of the public, then I will be suitably concerned.

The monument is not the problem. The whole thing started when Buddhists asked to put up a monument nearby, and were denied. They moved the cross to VFW's hands to avoid an equal protection challenge.

[the-evil-bapho.livejournal.com]

Fun fact: the pentacle was recently (a few years ago) allowed on military graves.

http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp

I love how the athiest symbol is an electron.

[futurebird.livejournal.com]

That's a nice selection of symbols.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

The Dobbsicon needs representation should I die before X-day. But I have faith.

Sufis...

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

... win, hands down. The winged heart is also the icon of the Flying Karamazov Brothers (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/Fkb_heartwings_straight.jpg).

The Whole Truth

[ofbg.livejournal.com]

From this article: http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/04/28/28greenwire-supreme-court-sides-with-interior-on-mojave-de-46043.html

"Congress had authorized a land swap with the Veterans of Foreign Wars, trading 1 acre of land around the cross in exchange for 5 privately owned acres elsewhere in the preserve."

Congress passed a bill requiring the swap (transfer) by the National Park Service. It was not a giveaway.

Re: The Whole Truth

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

This comment should be posted in response to the comment that the parcel was given away. I personally think the Feds made a pretty good profit on the deal.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

A happy ending to a political story, for once.

[mikeyxw.livejournal.com]

"I feel sorry for all of those families of war dead who are not members of the cult in question."

Any chance you feel happy for the families of the dead who were members?

Certainly!

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

After all, they get to keep their icon in the desert. It removes the insult of having the thing covered.

[dartmouth05.livejournal.com]

This is a fairly distressing case. Buddhists were denied a request to put up their own monument, making this a strong example of government promoting a particular religion over another.

Justice Kennedy's view that the cross is not only a Christian symbol, but also carries some other sort of meaning to honor and respect heroism is pure bullshit. The only Jew I know of who wouldn't mind a cross being used to honor and respect their heroism is Jesus Christ himself. The Buddhists who wanted to put up their own monument clearly don't find it to be a universal symbol. Justice Stevens's dissent stated outright that he doesn't find it to be a universal symbol.

Are there other options here besides removing the cross? Sure-allow other religions, like the Buddhists, to put up their own symbols. But pretending that the cross is not a reference to Christianity is pathetic at best, and an attempt by Roman-Catholic justices to claim that their religion is the Universal one.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Except this to me is like creating a memorial for all of those lesbians Hitler herded into Auschwitz-Birkenau. In short, he did nothing of the sort. If we're going to honor things that never happened.....

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Because so many people in the army that fought in World War I were Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus, and Traditional Native Americans. I could accept a monument for Judaism, but let's be honest: there was no significant non-Christian group that actually fought in WWI beyond those Native Americans that were still trying to keep the Old Ways and the Jews.

To memorialize Buddhists who fought in WWI would be analogous to building a statue of Odin in a WWII Japanese Cemetery.

Buddhists in WW-I

[sophia-sadek.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Buddhist war dead. There have been Buddhists living in California since the days of the transcontinental railway construction.