To serve man

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Recently, President Obama outlined his vision for American space exploration, canceling the Constellation rocket program and apparently with it, America's journey back to the Moon. Not all, but a good portion of the American space exploration program involves the search for life on places other than Earth, and of course the big pay off will be finding intelligent life that has developed a technology that will allow for two-way communication, or space travel. Many efforts are underway to listen for any messages from such civilizations. While SETI isn't funded by the U.S. federal government,there are some scientists that are suggesting that if we do get a phone call from E.T., humanity should not answer and leave well enough alone. One of the most celebrated scientists and researchers of our era, Stephen Hawking agrees:

World renowned scientist Stephen Hawking believes extraterrestrial life almost certainly exists -- and humans should be extremely cautious about interacting with it. "To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational," Hawking says in a new Discovery Channel series called Stephen Hawking's Universe. "The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like."

He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach."

He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is "a little too risky". He said: "If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn't turn out very well for the Native Americans

(source)

Politically, the question is: who would answer for Earth if we were to receive such a message? Who would make any decision that humanity should reply back? Do you think our governments should actively look to for alien life? I've always wondered why the underlying assumption that any technologically advanced species would treat us with kindness, given the history on Earth with one advanced civilization running the other less advanced one into the ground (e.g. Spain in the New World). Of course, the worse case situation would be technologically advanced aliens (with their vastly superior intellect) would have about the same morals as we do in our justification in raising cattle.

Comments

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The biggest risk of looking for ET is that ET will be either Cavemen or Gods. If Cavemen, it'll turn into Avatar without the Dea Ex Terra, if Gods, they might simply pave over Earth to make room for the Intergalactic Space Highway. I also doubt that if aliens were to come to Earth because they like mammal meat that they'd go after humans first. Depending on if they like the big stuff or the small stuff, they'd go after terrestrial and aquatic megafauna or alternately rodents.....

Humans are too boney. On the other hand, I suppose if they were intent on Serving Man they'd just Rapture a major city or two. Lots of food, panic among the food supply, more fun the next time.....

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

You don't pave over planets when making an intergalactic space highway, you blow them up.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Take it up with the Vogons. Resistance is futile.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The best alien invasion scenario ever is for aliens to strip-mine the solar system in about 2 weeks finishing with Earth because they're sadistic bastards.....^.^

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure aliens advanced enough to get here, would be advanced enough to know we are hear regardless of whether we answer. We can barely leave our own orbit and have detected tons of planets outside our solar system. Plus we have sent out enough radio waves already announcing our presence.

But beyond all that what motivation would they have for causing us trouble? What could human slaves do that robots couldn't? What resources do we have that are not much more easily gotten from asteroids or other planets? Its not like we would have any technologies they would need. I can't imagine we would be important enough to seek out and destroy.

If anything the fear is that they would simply not care enough to talk to us.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

What resources do we have that are not much more easily gotten from asteroids or other planets?
Biomass. Fear the Tyranid hive fleets, my friend.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

Haha! Those kind of stories always made the least sense to me. We are maybe 50 years away from cloning what ever the hell we want. No need for aliens to flying around looking for biomass.

Might as well invade Zimbabwe for their cattle.

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

This presumes that technology advances linearly, along the same track we use. The Tyranids are biological wonders, but do not necessarily understand the scientific method, and act mostly on instinct, with some exceptions.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

This presumes that human technology develops linearly to start with. Which it didn't......

[a-new-machine.livejournal.com]

Not really. I'm pointing out his presumption, that technology (in general and in our specific case) advances linearly.

Or: I agree with your statement, and did at the time I made mine as well.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Ah. So we're really in agreement then. D'oh.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I guess you could use the line of reasoning that for the same reasons we look for other resources on our own planet, such aliens would want to look for them here. And as Hawking observed, such an alien race could simply go from planet to planet using the resources as they went along in space.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

But our planet's resources are nothing in comparison to say the asteroid belt in our own solar system. There isn't really anything special on earth that would bring aliens specifically here. I mean yeah maybe they are rolling around mining everything they can find, but its not like communication on our part is going to somehow change their course.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Our planet being in the sweet spot for life to exist would be enough draw for such an alien species to come here. It maybe not just minerals they're looking for. Considering how rare the circumstances are for life on our planet, much less the uniquess of our solar system, that's enough of a draw.

[sgiffy.livejournal.com]

That makes sense. I could see them just wanting our planet. Again though, our communication or lack thereof won't matter for that as it would not be hard to tell that about our planet from anywhere within reasonable communication range and probably beyond.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

Unlikely to be an issue. Any species advanced enough to have interstellar travel is advanced enough to tow Mars into a habitable orbit and restock it's atmosphere (a few dozen comets dropped at just the right angle ought to do it) or tow Venus out to one and clean it's atmosphere up.


Either way the idea that an interstellar race would want our measly little rock is ridiculous, there are FAR easier ways in the solar system to get whatever resources they need.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Except that aliens would have a completely different psychology and evolutionary background.....

[telemann.livejournal.com]

That doesn't change a thing really. I'm sure Dr. Hawking with his brilliant mind knows this. As a friend commented to my post

it's a real challenge to find a motivation for expending huge amounts of resources to leave your own planet and travel hundreds of millions of miles with the full knowledge that by the time you get back, the airline that booked your flight will most certainly figure out a way to screw you out of the Frequent Flyer miles and will lose your luggage several times in the bargain. Our own motivation for going off-planet is literally economic - humans don't want to leave home in order to feed the starving Martians - we want to do it mostly to create a pathway for technological development that will result in a profit. Hawking is almost certainly right. Any race that stops by to visit won't have altruistic motives, despite what the movie industry has tried to assert. Likewise, any race that meets us should be equally suspicious, since we've proven repeatedly that we look at exploration as a source of untapped profit, not as expression of any native generosity.

(http://telemann.livejournal.com/603675.html?thread=2398491#t2398491 (WEBSITE LINK HERE))

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Of course the problem comes if we come in with AK-74s against something like Azathoth.......

Because IMHO, any sufficiently long-lived alien species would become either equivalent to the contemporary Maya who live in the ruins of the ancient civilizations or alternately Dread Cthulhu and his starspawn. Honestly, I know what we'd do to the former but I'd rather we encounter them than an Eldritch Abomination of the sort that would be the more likely......

[telemann.livejournal.com]

I think Dr. Hawking was suggesting that we don't know what would motivate any species contacting us, and it wouldn't be for good reasons. I tend to agree with that caution.

Erm.....

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

That's what I've been saying....

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

There is another threat.

They pick up out signals and come visit us. They are not hostile, merely curious but are so advanced items they consider mere toys to leave behind when they are done with are more powerful than anything we possess.

Then they are done and leave behind some of their trash and we nuke each other into oblivion fighting over their scraps.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily. The aliens might cause trouble for life on Earth with all the compassion humans have for dolphins caught up in fishing nets. Humans like shiny rocks, so what's to say aliens might not find Halite to be a very, very valuabe substance?

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

Little do we know, there's a giant section around our solar system cordoned off with signs that say "Danger! Do not enter!"

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, SETI recently stated that our own radio and television signals decay within a single light year, they're prolly not even making it to the nearest star. I don't know if I should be thrilled or sad honestly.

[ygrii-blop.livejournal.com]

What? Really? And here I was strangely comforted by the thought of a bubble of radio waves radiating from Earth for a hundred light years in every direction.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

It was mentioned on the television show "Life After Humans," in the context of -- "well everything here on Earth may vanish, but our historical record in radio and TV will survive, and will be viewable by other civilizations." That's when the show mentioned this factoid from SETI and the signals decay within a light year. I haven't looked into this further, but I plan to. It certainly ran counter to everything I understood.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

This is screaming for a Dailyquote!

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a good one ;)

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

It iz dunn.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

You should really check out a sci-fi book called The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. It's about some Earth folks who find a transmission of a really beautiful song from another planet. I don't want to give much more away, but this whole thread is taking me back to that book.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Evolution doesn't work that way.

[reflaxion.livejournal.com]

I think one has good reason to assume that any other intelligent life that may co-exist with us can't possibly be as stupid as we are.

[rasilio.livejournal.com]

I'm really surprised Hawking would say something like this.

He knows the numbers and that's why he believes that extraterrestrial life is inevitable and I agree with him. The problem is the most likely case is that there is no more than one other race which is both intelligent and not a million years more advanced than us in the entire Milky Way, if even that many.

In a million years we'll have the ability to cannibalize stars for whatever resources we need so anyone that old is unlikely to care about us any further than we care about plankton. Odds that they would even notice our signals are virtually non existent.

Races closer to us in technology level but still capable of interstellar travel are unlikely to be much of a threat because given the likely distance to them they'd probably be more interested in talking to us to see if we have heard of the same gods as them because we'd be the first intelligent race they had encountered as well.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

In a million years we'll have been long-since extinct and the biosphere will just be in the baby steps of recovering from what we've been doing to it.....

[x-eleven.livejournal.com]

Politically, the question is: who would answer for Earth if we were to receive such a message? Who would make any decision that humanity should reply back? Do you think our governments should actively look to for alien life?

The whole question is ridiculous. Given: Earth's rotation on its axis, its orbital velocity around the Sun, the Sun's orbital velocity around the center of mass of the galaxy, and the similar situation for another planet orbiting a distant star, the likelyhood of any two sets of antennae being oriented properly for reception is virtually nonexistant. Even if such an alignment were to occur, it wouldn't last longer than a few seconds, certainly not more than ten seconds at best. This is what SETI has found so far: a few signals that just might be artificial, but none have lasted long enough to tell if that's the case. None would last long enough to extract any meaningful information anyway. The likelyhood of that other planet's being in the proper orientation to receive our reply some centuries or millenia later is asking the impossible.

As for our TV and radio signals making it to distant planets, none too likely. After all, these signals are radiated from antennae designed to maximize reception on the ground. This is the opposite of what you would design for reception from deep space. Furthermore, from space, you would be receiving every station that broadcast on any particular frequency all at once. It would be a mess, for certain. Given the inefficiency of the radiators, any such signal would probably drop below the noise floor after a few million miles anyway.

"ET" ain't gonna be calling any time soon.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

Of course the irony of what might happen if *Earth* wasn't ready would be something like a much poorer Earth suffering the aftereffects of 20th and 21st Century excesses would suddenly get a visit from Space Aliens intending to eradicate Adolf Hitler and his successors before the virus spreads elsewhere.......