A little bit of gender, money, authenticity

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So yes, this is going to be personal. But then again, everything is personal when you are a person.

The other night I was hanging out with my gf and two of her friends--who happen to be a gay couple. Very nice people.** As we were leaving I saw The Portable Marx on their bookshelf and asked to borrow it; they lent it to me with a "if that doesn't come back, I really won't mind" so I now have a new book to work through; and I will be posting snippits here and there of it, since I fear that Marx is much misunderstood. (I'm lookin at you Steve&co)

But Marx isn't what I want to talk about today. Today there's another issue to bring up. As we left, we went downstairs and I went into a store to buy some cigarettes. Here in NYC they are quite pricey. So I got a pack and some other small item, came to $11.50. So I give him a 10 and two singles, my gf and I walk outside and are discussing the quickest way to get back to her place. Some 20 seconds later a middle aged white guy comes out of the store, asks if I just bought cigs from there, and when I say I did, he grabs my arm and starts pulling me back inside.

I never saw this man before in my life, but wanted to know what was up, so I went inside without fighting him. (tho his grabbing of my arm was a definite warning sign of: WTF is up with this guy) I go inside and what am I told?

I just used counterfeit money!

I had no idea. I never check my bills to see that they are real; I get change from a store, make sure the bills have the right amount on em, put em in my wallet and keep going. This pattern of mine has now changed.

See, the store owner just wanted real money; he asked if I had a card or something to pay for the cigs with. I did, but just wanted to get out of there, since the fellow who grabbed my arm and pulled me inside was standing there sorta bitching at me for it. "People get their ass kicked around here for that sort of thing man. What you trying to do? You know I could have you arrested right now" meanwhile, the guy beyond the counter was in no way hostile, but I wanted to get out of there, so I gave him the cigs back and took the fake 10 and started leaving the store. The guy said: "we're gonna talk outside" and he walks out infront of me.

He starts bitching at me some more, and I just keep telling him: "I didn't know it was fake. I had no idea. What do you want from me? I didn't know, he has his cigs back, give it a break." meanwhile he isn't stopping, and I can kinda smell booze on his breath.

At this point, my gf (who is infinitely smarter than I) takes my hand and starts walking away from the store and the drunk-bitching guy. In order to break our hand-holding walk, he pushes her, not hard enough to knock her down but enough to make her take a step back.

At this point I flip my attitude from: "sorry I just gave that guy fake money without knowing it" to "WHAT THE FUCK, DONT DO THAT" fortunately for me, a large latino guy who was crossing the street towards the store, saw what was going on, saw the man push my gf, comes up behind the man, grabs him by the shoulders and says something like: "What the hell are you doing? Don't EVER disrespect a woman like that." at this point again my gf takes my hand we start walking away. Both of us very much so shaken up.

So, as I said, this is personal. But it connects to the troublesome question of fake money.

It's only after the fact that I noticed how the fake 10 differed from a real 10. It's a pretty good fake; only things missing are the watermark and the security bar. It also feels a little different to the touch, but other than that, it's spot on.

So two questions:

While I am glad there was the chivalrous stranger present, do you think anybody would have stepped in to help a gay couple dealing with the same thing? (I doubt it)
What makes money, to you, real? (to me, it is as simple as others accepting it. Had the fake 10 been accepted, I never woulda known, and it woulda been perfectly real money to me)

And lastly: I find it odd that when one group of people prints stuff on paper, that paper has great weight. When another group prints almost the exact same stuff on paper, that paper is deemed fake/worthless. And it can almost get you or a loved one into a fight that you prolly don't want. So y'all be careful out there.

~Namaste

[and just to preview the future stuff on Marx:

"Like Christianity both Marxism and Marxism-Leninism speak in the name of their founder more often than they speak with his voice. Their sacred texts are not confined to the writings of Marx.
....Engels--the true founder of 'Marxism'--was elevated, partly by himself, to the status of co-prophet and intellectual alter ego of Marx.....Marx himself once proclaimed that he was no 'Marxist'" -Eugene Kamenka (introduction, xliv-xlv)]

**they happen to also be teachers. anyone got a problem with that? if so, why?

Comments

A little bit of this and a little bit of that,

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

But what's the political issue that we're supposed to debate here? Or you just threw some bits into the mishmash hoping that a reader or two would catch one or more of them? I'm genuinely confus'd.

Re: A little bit of this and a little bit of that,

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Whichever issue you want to discuss. I'm not sure we need to debate.

But what makes money real is a good one. Cause I'm a pragmatist, so long as it works, good by me.
Sorry for the confusion. I'll aim to make the future Marx posts exceedingly clear.

Re: A little bit of this and a little bit of that,

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

and yeah, there are a number of things there; my mind is so full of ideas, hard for me to narrow it down to one. I save that kind of energy for serious academic writing; the stuff I post here is train of thought, with some revision at the end, and hopefully y'all like my train of thought. I think there are some nice chairs in the train, and the meals might not be great, but there's some flavor and kick to it, I hope.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Well of course they prohibit it.

But what does the IOU mean? Payment of what?
My buddy got a bill from 1957 the other day; on such bills it says that on demand the bearer of the bill must be paid X amount of silver. That was money where the IOU concept makes sense; this bill = that amount of silver/gold

But now, what does the IOU mean? What's owed?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Why?

Isn't it somewhat sexist to believe women are incapable of defending themselves?

[kinvore.livejournal.com]

My icon, it applies to me this time.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

no worries.

Apparently, I was the first to get "anecdote" as a tag. Woot for me?

[policraticus.livejournal.com]

My guess is... you got mugged. Your $10 was A-OK and they flim flammed you and gave you back a fake they got earlier in the day.

That would be my take on it. From the comfort and perspective of my computer I would have said, "Call the cops, I'll wait." But I am here, and you were there.

For your other questions...

I don't know. Good people will try to protect who they see as weak or vulnerable, in this culture that group rarely includes two guys walking around, gay or not. Still, if a guy assaults another guy for no apparent reason, I think there are plenty of people who would try to intervene. Look at most bar fights, somebody is always dragging one guy off another one.

Fiat money is all about acceptance. About faith, really. But, I dare say that same vendor takes in Canadian coins, pennies or quarters, all the time and never bats an eye, even though they are as "counterfeit" as anything made by a criminal.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

The thought of them scamming me crossed my mind. But apparently this particular type of fake 10 has been passing around for awhile; I just hadn't heard of it.

And sure, some people interfere in fights between people of any gender--but just see BruceStein's answer above; gender plays a role in how people think about these things.

However, as for the 'they scammed me' theory, it wouldn't have done the owner any good to have his guy press the matter after I gave back the cigs and took the fake money. So...I kinda discount that theory.

[mrbogey.livejournal.com]

'My guess is... you got mugged. Your $10 was A-OK and they flim flammed you and gave you back a fake they got earlier in the day.'

Possibly.

Which is why the second the guy told me I gave him a fake, I'd demand the police be called, the money collected by them and a report taken so they could try and catalog where these fake 10$ notes are coming from.

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

I doubt you would have submitted to any kind of physical coercion to return to the store. Step one is "Get your hands off me now."

[root-fu.livejournal.com]

I think you did the smart thing.

Its possible the latino and the drunk knew one another. Maybe some familiarity, there? If they were running a scam, it may make sense to have someone to back them up in case someone gets upset and it turns violent. Those who are big are often selected for that role.

I don't know whether I would have intervened or not. Sometimes, it seems like I can put an end to disagreements quickly, because I look somewhat like a violent person -- even if I'm a nice guy. I'll look at them and say "what?" And, they'll start walking in the other direction. And, that's good. But, if its types who are career criminals and con artists who have nothing to lose, then probably better not to mess with them, unless you really have to.

Like I said, you probably did the smart thing.

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

they happen to also be teachers. anyone got a problem with that? if so, why?

nah. I got nothin' against teachers.


;)

[valkyri.livejournal.com]

Paper money is a representation of gold (or possibly other assets?) It's a "note" and not real trade exchange. What makes the government money real, and not paper someone else printed - is that they hold the assets, or at least they owe for them.

That's why you can trade the notes for goods. It's the barter system represented by notes that say "this represents gold, and it's yours." A facsimile of a note is not a note, because it does not represent assets. Easy enough.

As for lesbian teachers, maybe it's because I'm Canadian that I don't even understand this? I'm a bisexual programmer. My partner is a straight house painter. Is there some link to sexual orientation and career choices that I'm missing? People sleep with who they sleep with and do what they do... I just don't see the connection.

As for whether someone would come to help out a gay couple in the same situation - entirely depends on who happens to be walking by at the time. I would say the chances would increase or decrease based on where you are geographically too. As I've never been to NYC, I can't comment, but I can give similar examples based on my own familiar geography. The chance in downtown Toronto would be greater than in downtown Barrie (pop. 125K with rural surroundings) because the city core is by nature more tolerant of diversity (because they are immersed in it) than the mostly-white middle class community that I live in. If I saw it in downtown Barrie I would do something, so would my partner. (Actually, he said he would be more inclined to defend a lesbian couple than a het couple) But seeing as the local gay bar had their windows smashed regularly, I think we'd be more the minority here than in the big city. This is with one other disclaimer - I find people in big cities much more likely to ignore anything going on than they do in smaller cities, which might even it up more. Weird shit happens in big cities with more frequency, which desensitizes people.

Anyhow, it really all depends on just who is walking by at the time. You were lucky that someone who had a big enough intimidation factor did - as many other people simply wouldn't want to risk their own physical safety. That's a factor too. Too many variables.

[uberarcanist.livejournal.com]

It's not that the government holds the assets, its that they are acknowledged in being the last word in what's legal and not. A lot of assets, probably most, are NOT held by the government.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I think Zeppo was highly underrated, and I don't believe Groucho or Chico were counterfeiters. Harpo I'm not so sure about - never trusted anyone who honks a horn to communicate.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

Win!!

[pastorlenny.livejournal.com]

I worry about you.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

care to elaborate?

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

Couterfeit is like the King's carte blanche. The King would sign a blank sheet of paper for the bearer to fill out their own terms.

Now it's not so much that the King's signature is a fake, but that the King is in fact broke, er, beyond broke, he's gone into exile on Elba.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

The basic reason is that we as a people have decided that we're going to use this specific currency and have it hold value for exchanges, because its very useful. Part of it holding value is that private parties can't just create it out of thin air, or else it will not hold value. As a people therefore we have agreed that counterfeiting needs to be illegal, it is necessary to the social agreement that we will use this certain type of representation of value for exchanges.

As a people, we also acknowledge that we need to be able to control, publicly, the amount of currency being exchanged for value, so we authorize a specific entity to print or destroy it to modify the amount in circulation as necessary.

[dierdrae.livejournal.com]

Counterfeit money could feasibly be used to gain goods or services, but only up to a certain point, where it would fail. For example, you might be able to spend a fake $10 to buy a book at a bookstore, but as soon as that bookstore tries to put that $10 in an account, the bank would notice it was fake and wouldn't accept it. Thus, it was only 'money' for the length of the original exchange, and not actually imbued with value that's accepted by a majority. If the majority accepted the value of all counterfeit notes, the market would become saturated, value would go down, and we'd be left buying loafs of bread with $100,000,000 in a wheelbarrow. "Authenticity" has to begin and end somewhere, and here it begins and ends with the Treasury and US Mint, producing bills that are accepted by ALL, not just the few who might happen to be tricked or not pay attention.

[puf-almighty.livejournal.com]

Dude, you sound like kind of a pussy.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

It takes a certain amount of self confidence to be nice and respectful towards people instead of lashing out like a small dog any time you feel threatened.

I probably would have gone with the guy to see if I had done something wrong too, if I felt confident enough I could handle myself if I did.

So This One Time at Band Camp....

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Re: So This One Time at Band Camp....

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

unrelated comment is unrelated?

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

Pain override is a technique taught by martial artists which seeks to override antagonist thought processes by the application of pain. Generally, pain override does not cause injury to your opponent; it's intent is to short-circuit higher cognitive functions by flooding their brain with sympathetic, autonomic stimuli.

Total commitment demonstrates an automatic reaction to hostile situations which resolves the conflict through rapid and deadly force, applied so that the usual social escalation of violence is ignored in favor of "cashing out" before the assaulter can calculate the dynamics of the conflict.

Generally speaking, crushing the trachea of an assailant is the quickest, easiest and most successful tactic.

[meus-ovatio.livejournal.com]

I'm just kidding BTW. There was no need to react so strongly in your situation. A good outcome is a good outcome, and you got out fine.

While I am glad there was the chivalrous stranger present, do you think anybody would have stepped in to help a gay couple dealing with the same thing?
In Minneapolis? Sure.

What makes money, to you, real?
When it gets me real things.

[mijopo.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a traumatic experience, but don't take it out on us with an incoherent post.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

DAILY QUOTE!!!