Political Pet Peeve.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

I'm new to the community, and, after reading a few of the posts on here, I'm quite sure no matter what I talk about it will be shunned. Although, I'm hoping not because I have not seen a topic about this, albeit I didn't dig too far into the comm.

I'm going to start off by saying that politics honestly isn't one of my favorite things to discuss. The reason for this is people have such contrasting opinions, and every discussion usually ends with one of those involved being irritated. The fact is, humans have a tendency to want to be right about everything. There are even some who feel angry walking away from a conversation knowing they did not convince the other party to believe as they do. I guess I would say I'm one of those people who say like ignoring politics and religion... Well, at least when it comes to friends.

Thus leading me to the whole point of this post: I have a friend who has an abhorrent habit of bringing up politics in the most offense ways. Now, since I know this is a political community, I don't mind sharing my opinions and thoughts on here about my political views.

Personally, I feel that we should support our government and give them a chance. Specifically meaning our president. We tend to get a new one every eight years (sometimes only four, of course) and it usually takes four of those years for the people to honestly get a feel for the new president. For example, while I did not vote for Bush, I was willing to see what he would do in office. After a while, it felt like we were following some idiot off into shitland. In fact, that's how it felt for many of those around me. I'm not trying to speak for everyone, but I feel like the government under Bush and, in fact, the entire country fell to pieces. This is a personal opinion, of course.

I started struggling financially toward the end of 2007. I continue to struggle financially today, but I see a little bit of light at the end of this long, long tunnel. After feeling like I've lost all the best opprotunities, I see more finally opening up to me. I consider myself a democrat, just so everyone understands why I voted for Obama. I also feel like things are slowly improving under him. I won't really discuss the health care reform or anything, because I honestly don't feel like I know anything about it! I've watched the news and read articles, but I still don't feel like I have enough information on it to form a valid opinion. For me, I suppose time will tell.

So about this Obama guy... I feel like so many people are throwing hissy fits about him! (WARNING: OPINIONS FOLLOWING!!!) After all, Bush came in, fucked up our economy, and it took him eight years to do it. People seem to think Obama can come in and fix it overnight. It's not gonna happen people!!!! We're in a shithole. It's going to take time to get ourselves out of it. After studying what happened under Bush Sr., I feel like we never should have elected his damn son in the first place. Between the two of them, they have sixteen years of shit! Clinton came in and saved our asses, but he didn't do it overnight did he? I feel like more people should give Obama a chance. They are writing him off far too quickly.

All right, got a little side-tracked there. I apologise. Back to what I was saying about my rude friend or what I was going to say about my rude friend. I have expressed to him many times that I dislike discussing religion and politics with people, and he has found a way around this. We do not "discuss" anything. Instead, he makes this horrible comments which he knows I won't say anything about because I'm, and I quote, "Too nice."

These comments are irritating. I will give a quick example. The other day my fiance and I were at the gas station. He found a weird coin on the ground next to my car, and he decided to bring it into the car and ask if I knew what it was. It turned out to be just a dirty peso, but that's beside the point. While we were looking at it, a black corvette pulled into the gas station parking lot. Inside the vehicle was a larger hispanic male. It was nice out and he had his top down and we had the windows all the way down. He proceeded to make some snide remark and call us dumbasses because we were just sitting in the gas station lot. Now, my truck was not on, and there was nothing to indicate we were finished at the gas station. For all this man knew, we had just pulled in as well. This had frustrated both my fiance and I, but when we told our friend his response was, "I blame Obama. He made all those damn minorities think it was okay to talk down to white people." When he said this, I nearly leaped across the room at him. (I'm sure many of our friends would have paid to see that. He's 6 ft tall and muscular. I'm a 5 ft pregnant lady.)

There are many, many things about that response that pissed me off. First of all, blaming Obama for someone being a jackass? Yes, because our president makes people act a certain way. If this were true, we would have all turned into illiterates while Bush was in office. Secondly, what the hell does him being hispanic have to do with anything? I included that bit in the story when we first told it to him because it was sort of ironic that we were looking at a peso when he pulled up. Semi-inappropriate humor I suppose. I just know it was completely ignorant for him to believe that it happened because the driver happened to be of a different race. I've met plenty of assholes on the rode who were just as white as me. It was disgusting that he'd reply this way. Now, that's really only one example of some of the ridiculous shit he's said about Obama. I could rant about the other stuff for hours.

Besides all of this, he has a tendency to misquote articles, showing only the bad side of this. I think what unnerves me the most about his behaviour is it is completely ignorant. As a matter of fact, the things he says comes from his father. The guy can't even form his own damn opinions! This drives me absolutely crazy. I grew up in a house that believed in mostly Republican viewpoints. As I got older, I started examaining the different parties and their beliefs. It was then I realised I didn't agree with my parents standpoints on a lot of issues. Therefore, I claimed myself a democrat when I turned sixteen. At first, this caused a lot of debates with my mother. Ironically, she now considers herself a democrat and has officially switched parties. It turned out she was basing her political views off of her parents'.

I have a couple of things I am interested in hearing others discuss. The first I'm sure has been done before, but what do you think of Obama vs. Bush? Also, What is your biggest political pet peeve? Mine, of course, being ignorance and the inability to form your own opinions.

Comments

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

You've pretty much summed up how most people feel, and managed not to come off as a shitheel in the process. So kudos there.

And I say shitheel specifically, because that's my opinion of your 'friend'. He knows how you feel, yet has this overwhelming need to rub his sweaty ballsack in your face anyway. I say kick him to the curb. You don't need that kind of crap, life is aggravating enough as it is.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

I've felt that way a lot of the times. I've known this guy for about five years now. Which is longer than I've known my fiance. The two of them have been friends since they were in elementry school, and I guess that makes my fiance reluctant to let him go. Though he's honestly just as pissed off about it as I am.

I don't know if reitterating how I feel about discussing politics would make much of a difference. The fact still remains that he's a good person generally and he's a blast to hang out with. You bring other shit like politics into friendships and it mostly just ends in huge fest of shit. Thus, my policy on the matter. He can be a really awesome guy; he's just very ignorant and "opinionated". I use quotes because I believe it's hard to be opinionated about something when you just listen to other's viewpoints on it.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

I also should add that this crap just started recently. I have no idea what inspired it, but Obama's been in office for a while now. It has only been in the last month or so he's said anything like this. So I have no idea what the hell his problem is all of a sudden.

[lucazzo.livejournal.com]

Political pet peeve? How come Humans were made members of the Council before the Volus or Elcor?

I also can't stand this load of political correctness. Hell, "Fisto" is just a holovid, get over it!

And don't get me started on all those activists protesting indentured servitude on Ilium, when the Hanar are still practicing REAL slavery against the Drell. Similarly, that bunch of nonsense about some Reapers committing genocide every 50,000 years, when the Citadel was more than happy to unleash the genophage...

Sorry. Joke response motivared by user icon. Will respond properly in the morning while sober.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

Oh god. Thank you for that. Your response rocked. That was fantastic. I'm sure I could spend a long time debating the politics of the ME universe. It actually sounds more fun than discussing ours.

[drcruel.livejournal.com]

I thought that was Gerard Davies and was all set to write about how awesome it is that someone else remembers that show but now I'll hold off lest I look like an idiot.

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

"I'm quite sure no matter what I talk about it will be shunned"

As you can see, that wasn't the case. It really depends how you say the thing you're about to say. Then, no matter how crazy it is, chances are that if you say it well, there will be at least one person who's willing to engage you in a sensible discussion.

And here you've made a good point in a well-organized way, so I don't see a reason why it should be shunned. So stop worrying how your words will be accepted and just enjoy the discussion, mkay?

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

Aye, aye captian! *salutes* lol. I've been in several communities that seem to think snark should be an olympic sport, so I'm used to be trashed with my first posts. I was also sort of worried people would find this off-topic. I really needed to rant about it though. Anger build-up is like constipation: it fucking stinks when it finally escapes.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying we should ignore them, but I have had situations in the past with friends that have ended in everyone hating each other. I discuss politics with my mother and my fiance etc because I know that we don't take it seriously enough to get all butt-hurt about it.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Your opinion part of the post is really an explanation of how you've come to where you are -- so I certainly hope people would, at most, quibble with any questions of fact.

Regarding your "friend". Doesn't sound like a friend in all honesty. The actual racism (goodness! minorities!) and the lack of thought before expressing an opinion -- doesn't sound like you respect him or need to either.

The real question, I suppose, is how much does he represent a trend or just an individual jerk.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

If you mean a trend with my friends, he's pretty much alone on this.

Now, I'm not innocent or anything. I've made the occasional comment that could probably be considered racist, but I do not live by that. I believe all people are created equal no matter skin color, height, weight, age, education etc.

[reflaxion.livejournal.com]

"I won't really discuss the health care reform or anything, because I honestly don't feel like I know anything about it!"

I'd say you just outperformed 90% of the community.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

Kudos to me?

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

The problem for the current President is that he's a mediocrity in a time that requires a bloody genius of Newtonian levels to run things with a prayer of getting out of them. Both Presidents Bush and Obama reaped the fruit that other people sowed before them, and both are/were making/made mistakes of expanding dramatically on the gardens of poisoned fruit.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

I believe that no matter who is in office, there will always be those who are unhappy with them. Honestly, the media makes everything sound horrible. Sometimes I swear my friend watched fox news and believes it *facepalm*

I feel that the likelihood we'd be able to find who/what the country really needs in this time is pretty much zero. Our forefathers are rolling in their graves.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

Lol. Sorry your last bit kinda made me chuckle.

As I mentioned in a previous comment, it's just recently that he's starting saying these things. He's honestly a pretty good guy. I have no idea what's gotten into him that he feels it's necessary to suddenly act like this.

[eracerhead.livejournal.com]

IMO, what your friend is doing is looking for affirmation. When he makes a statement and that statement remains unchallenged he gets said affirmation because silence indicates concurrence. This serves as a substitute for having to think about and come up with ones own ideas about issues. This is a learned behavior through positive reinforcement and it can be unlearned through negative reinforcement.

Now this doesn't always mean that you have to get angry and strident. What often works is to calmly ask him questions about how he knows these things or comes to his conclusions. There are two likely outcomes: 1) You were wrong about him and he will give you the reasoning behind his well thought-out opinion, or 2. You are right about him and he will become frustrated and flummoxed. This becomes a win for you either way. In the former you have elevated the conversation away from sniping and can learn the reasoning behind views that aren't your own. In the latter you are depriving him of what he wants and he will eventually stop doing it around you because you are making him do something that he does not want to do.

Now as to what I think of Obama vs Bush. The presidency is a very powerful position but not to the extent of a soverign. He cannot simply make things happen by decree. If some people had the fantasy that Obama mounted on a unicorn was going to ride in on a rainbow and move the country to the far left, he can hardly be blamed for failing to live up to expectations.

Part of his job is to convince congress to take courses of action in favor of plans that are largely developed jointly by the president and his staff with input from the electorate. This is exactly why I want my president not only to be smart, but to be scary-smart and at the same time have the ability to effectively communicate at all levels. I want to be humbled in the presence of his intellect. I want her to be so elite that she has access to the finest minds in the world and is capable of understanding and judging their ideas. IMO an "average Joe" president is not qualified for the presidency because the average American lacks the intellect and skills to be an effective president, and always will. To that extent Obama fills the bill a whole lot better than Bush who was a national embarrassment.

My biggest pet peeve: "The US is a Christian nation, founded on Christian Principles," and as an additional fail: "This is true because it is on the money." It requires all of my willpower to refrain from choking the living shit out of these assholes who desperately need killing.

[dukexmachismo.livejournal.com]

My biggest pet peeve: "The US is a Christian nation, founded on Christian Principles," and as an additional fail: "This is true because it is on the money." It requires all of my willpower to refrain from choking the living shit out of these assholes who desperately need killing.

Don't choke them -- that will feed their persecution fantasy.

[ryder-p-moses.livejournal.com]

Your friend's a cock, going out of your way to make your friends uncomfortable because you know they won't stop you and that's how you get your jollies makes you a nasty person no matter how you do it.

Outside the context of poisonous relationships and inflicting your unasked opinions on innocent bystanders, though, the value "giving [the President] a chance" is pretty questionable. I've noticed a big emphasis in public discourse on "supporting" Obama (though there might have been much the same for Bush among the far-right, I couldn't tell), where "supporting" just means "saying only nice things about him on the Internet". It's not clear to me how this helps him in any way, or particularly how it'd help him fulfill the desires of those currently discontented, it pretty much looks like a way to silence criticism.

The landslide-elected two-branches-of-government-dominating virtually-omnipotent supremo of the world's only superpower can probably be held to a stricter standard of performance than a nervous twelve-year-old at a piano recital, reasonable critique or unreasonable heckling isn't going to hurt him. For certain there's reasonable and unreasonable complaints to be made about the work he's done thus far (and his existence making the darkies get uppity would definitely be an unreasonable one), but not complaining just isn't a good way to get things done in politics. Assuming a given politician even cares about your opinion without being forced to, they've no way to distinguish silence from apathy and the one who won't voice their concerns will just find themselves ignored in favor of those who will. Just, like, have the basic social competence to understand the correct time and place to spout off.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying we shouldn't criticise. I've done my fair share of critcising him. Mostly because of the health care reform. Now, I already stated I don't feel like I know anything about it, but I do think that right now there seems like a lot more important things for him to be dealing with. His health reform doesn't seem to be making jobs for the 9.7% of Americans who are still unemployed. I still think there is a way to criticise without offending others and without sounding like a total jackass. If you want to criticise, be my guest.

Now when I say giving him a chance, I mostly mean "lower your expectations". As I said, I feel like people expected him to come in and fix the economy in a wave of his hand. He's a man, not God, and not a wizard. I feel like people honestly need to realize that this recovery is going to come slowly but surely.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

When did *talk_politics* turn into "Dear Abby"?

Oh well, it was worth it to see the snark masters and flamers being polite.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

I adore Dear Abby! I think it should become a regular feature in this community. Maybe a Dear Abby day once every month? Because I almost made a very similar post before I saw this one.

[gifa.livejournal.com]

I'm with you.

But...

Between the two of them, they have sixteen years of shit!

Bush Snr, was a 1 termer... So the Bush's have only had twelve years... unless you count Snr's eight years as VP to Reagan... in which case, twenty years.

Yes, because our president makes people act a certain way. If this were true, we would have all turned into illiterates while Bush was in office.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Education improved under Bush's No Child Left Behind policy... Just sayin'


But, other than that, I like you. You should hang out more often, but don't bring your friend, he's a douche.

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

Oops on the Bush Snr. It was late, and I remembered incorrectly >.< my bad.

[thies.livejournal.com]

Well, there is some troubling precedent in whom Obama surrounds himself with. Bill Ayers, Van Jones, Rev Wright to name a few. The democratic party in general looks favorable at amnesty for illegal immigrants, giving criminals a carte blanche. Then we have Obama steadfastly siding with Gates in whta led to the beer summit, without actually knowing what happened - the african american must be right and the white police officer wrong. It shows a trend towards bias in favor of non whites.

[devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com]

I thought the Bill Ayers mantra had died.

[allhatnocattle.livejournal.com]

miyotôtâkewin

[kardashev.livejournal.com]

what do you think of Obama vs. Bush?

It's something of a toss-up for me. I'd say Obama is doing marginally better than Bush...or at least I'll be saying that until it turns out we can't repay our financial debts to China.

Seriously, this country is broke.

Also, What is your biggest political pet peeve?

Extremism and the "party uber alles" mentality.

[majortom-thecat.livejournal.com]

Pet peeves, you say? Thanks for this post. I hope you don't mind me venting. My pet peeve is all my relatives on facebook posting long, cheesy videos about how Obama is exactly like Hitler. And they won't let you comment using your own words out of your own head until they're satisfied that you've watched the entire video. And then, when you make a comment or ask a question all you get is another stupid video or talking point. Or both if you're really lucky.

I finally got my dad to have a conversation with me using his own words.

Me: What is it that you don't like about healthcare reform?
Dad: It isn't about health care. It's about losing liberty.
Me: What liberties have you lost, exactly?
Dad: The right to choose my own doctor.

Ok. Ten years ago, my dad moved to a tiny, isolated town in Alaska where there is only one doctor.

I don't think Obama is perfect by any means, but somehow it seems that my family can only understand extremes.

Thanks for letting me vent and welcome to the community!

[buggerthis22.livejournal.com]

You are very welcome. That would absolutely drive me nuts! This is why I ignore most posts on facebook, because a lot of it is a bunch of crap. I don't know how you keep your mouth shut. I would want them to answer me!!!