[identity profile] verytwistedmind.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics


Question #9 on the this year's census asks about your race. One of the boxes you can choose is "black," "African American," or "negro," all placed next to the same box.  

The word 'negro' has offended several people as the referenced article shows.

http://wcbstv.com/national/negro.census.form.2.1409469.html

Should the term Negro be phased out of the census? if so, shouldn't Caucasian be phased out as well since they are from Typology?

I dislike 'multi-racial' in the census. It's too inclusive. It means little, especially in America. I know people who have multi-European backgrounds who classify themselves as multi-racial.


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Date: 7/1/10 17:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com
I don't like them combining census with survey in the first place

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From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com - Date: 7/1/10 17:54 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 00:00 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/1/10 17:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xpiscesgrl227x.livejournal.com
Maybe they should just be "pure-bred" and "mutt"? I'd kind of get a kick out of checking "mutt" as my race. =)

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From: [identity profile] xpiscesgrl227x.livejournal.com - Date: 7/1/10 17:40 (UTC) - Expand

=)

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Date: 7/1/10 17:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hey-its-michael.livejournal.com
I think that as long as there are people who self-identify with certain terms, those terms should be left.

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From: [identity profile] dudeuhman.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 00:47 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 17:52 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/1/10 18:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com
maybe they should make race a fill in the blank answer...

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Date: 7/1/10 18:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schquee.livejournal.com
I'll write "macaw"! Or macaca. Maybe macaroon. jk I'm white. I don't like being called "Caucasian" though. Doesn't that imply that I'm from the Caucasus mountains? Race is such a political designation. It's bullshit. But until people stop being racist, the census asking for race isn't a bad idea. It's data, it's used in environmental justice lawsuits, it's used in GIS analysis of poverty level, police brutality, school performance, etc. People use the data for evil, too, though. I guess.

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From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com - Date: 7/1/10 21:38 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] foolsguinea.livejournal.com - Date: 7/1/10 23:42 (UTC) - Expand
From: [identity profile] reality-hammer.livejournal.com
A) Some Americans still self-identify as "negro". (This is the Census position.)

2) It's Spanish for "black".
From: [identity profile] lucazzo.livejournal.com
About A, yes. I've heard several older ones referring to themselves as that and actually finding the term "black" insulting.
From: [identity profile] readherring.livejournal.com
Back in college, I unintentionally started an argument by defending old Jews that referred to black people as "Schvatzahs". The word is Yiddish for black. Some of those Jews didn't like blacks, but the word itself wasn't derogitory. Somehow, we need to come to peace with words like that. The whole "you can't call me that anymore because I've decided its racist" mentality is breeding a new phase of racism against people stereotyped as always playing the race card.

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Date: 7/1/10 18:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rev-proffessor.livejournal.com
A Rose by any other name... I don't know. It's an antiquated term but, at least they didn't list 'colored'. Is that bad? My Dad uses that term sometimes and I always tease him about it.

I don't understand why someone with a "multi-European" despondency would identify as multi-racial. What, if you're Celtic and Slavic that's multi-racial? Really? I know my wife like to play with people by marking Asian, just because her Grandfather was a Siberian Jew. Given that people self report and self identify, how useful is the racial data, I wonder..?

us vs them

Date: 7/1/10 20:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Yes, the binary 'white' vs 'colored' is slightly worse than 'white' vs 'black', because in the second one at least there's an implicit acknowledgment that those might not be the only two possibilities, even if both of them in themselves are misleading labels.

By traditional standards...

Date: 8/1/10 00:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
... there is a Saxon race, an English race, a Norman race. Back in the day, the race designated the tribe, not the skin color.

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From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 20:58 (UTC) - Expand

Time is relative...

From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com - Date: 9/1/10 00:26 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Time is relative...

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Date: 7/1/10 19:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com
Someones going to bitch no matter what word is used.

If it is that offensive, they should shut down/change names of the NAACP and United Negro College Fund.

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Date: 7/1/10 22:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com
my dog finds your use of the word bitch offensive.

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From: [identity profile] dudeuhman.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 00:50 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 01:02 (UTC) - Expand

The NAACP...

From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 00:22 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/1/10 23:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
I allways like checking "Other" on job/school applications then writing in "Male Human".

Soooo racist that...

Date: 8/1/10 00:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I know a guy who is so racist that he refers to "the race of women." By his standard, everyone is mixed race.

As for taking offense at the use of the anachronism, negro, perhaps they could simply boycott the form altogether. I'm surprised that the census would use the term race, rather than ethnic identity. (On the other hand, in Redneckistan, such a question would cause a brow or two to rise.) I find it offensive that the census doesn't include the categories: gray-hound, horse, stock-car, Indy-car, motocross.

Re: Soooo racist that...

Date: 8/1/10 00:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com
you left out nascar and formula one and offended millions.

ohsnap

From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 01:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: ohsnap

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Date: 8/1/10 00:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sgiffy.livejournal.com
I can see where the census is coming from. I worked for the census in 2000(pretty much the best job a high schooler could have) and remember people offering alternative racial categories. The form, if memory serves, has a spot for write in and they let you pick multiple categories. The vast majority identify with the ones listed and a few want to be something not listed. It all works out pretty well.

In this case they got a number of people in 2000 writing in negro and thought they would include it since people are stating it. I can see the issue, but I think in this case giving them the benefit of the doubt is in order.

As for removing the question entirely, sure race is arbitrary distinction, but so is the boundary of cities and regions, religion, and notions of class. Money is a made up form of exchange as are the degrees people earn.

These things have social and political significance and provide interesting and important statistical information that help us understand the current state of this country. Removing the question only hides the issue.

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Date: 8/1/10 00:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Cute, but people with different white backgrounds are not really multi-"racial." Basques and Asheknazi even do not really qualify. I reject racial boundaries on the simple basis that I look more like Ainu than I do like Italians but I don't really give a shit how Japan stabs its natives in the back. Unfortunately we live in a world where being non-"white" meant various degrees of difficulty from suck to hazardous to your health. So I would support doing away with official government counts altogether.

The modern-day United States is not required to be a White Man's country, we are in theory supposed to be civilized enough to recognize that practicing Muslims and Hindus and black men are both able contributors and the last category has been such for the entirety of our history.

I would note I say this as a middle-class WASP raised by two professors and hence subject to all the limitations that perspective really offers.

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Date: 8/1/10 00:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dudeuhman.livejournal.com
how about: "from which continent(s) did your ancestors emigrate to the u.s. and when?"

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Date: 8/1/10 00:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com
but then everyone would answer africa.

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Date: 8/1/10 02:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drcruel.livejournal.com
My dissertation actually touched on this subject, and I remember writing that it would be a fallacy to conclude that someone from Paris, France was necessarily similar to someone from Paris, Kentucky merely because they were both Caucasian. A similar statement could be made about Rome, Italy and Rome, Georgia. And then one must wonder, would you care to be the one to tell a Frenchman and an Italian that they are the same race?

It's an antiquated question, and if we want a post-racial world, we need to stop asking it. My race is human.

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Date: 8/1/10 05:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dudeuhman.livejournal.com
i would love to be the one to tell a frenchman and an italian they're the same race. gimme the deets on that shit.

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From: [identity profile] drcruel.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 12:53 (UTC) - Expand

hmm...

Date: 8/1/10 06:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zebra24.livejournal.com
"Caucasian" in Russia also means ethnic groups from Caucasian mountains.
There are many ethnic groups.
Even some offensive term exists like: "face of Caucasian nationality".

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Date: 8/1/10 08:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Further to what [livejournal.com profile] zebra24 said, I can't understand why whites are called Caucasian. Norwegians don't look very "Caucasian" to me, so where did this "Caucasian" term come from?

Norse (Norwegian):
Image

Caucasian (Armenian):
Image

Italian:
Image

Slavic (Russian):
Image

Iberian (Spanish):
Image

Anatolian (Turkish):
Image

Where's the link between all these?

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Date: 8/1/10 12:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Indo-European languages.

Which also puts them in cahoots with these:

Image

Pashtuns.

Image

Indians.

Image

And Persians. That's right, whites are linguistically closer to Ahmadinejad than they are King Fahd.

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From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 8/1/10 13:25 (UTC) - Expand

Let me be the first ...

From: [identity profile] ed-rex.livejournal.com - Date: 13/1/10 02:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Let me be the first ...

From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 13/1/10 09:43 (UTC) - Expand

Waitaminute!

From: [identity profile] ed-rex.livejournal.com - Date: 13/1/10 02:00 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 8/1/10 16:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] headhouse.livejournal.com
I think they should just omit every word that offends anyone.

I personally have issues about the word "and." I'll be writing a letter to the census bureau today.

And I concur with you

Date: 14/1/10 21:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ed-rex.livejournal.com
What more need I say?