[identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
We talked about the connection between the Trump phenomenon (if I can call it so) and the Kardashian phenomenon. I heard a few opinions, including the one that there are different people with different views on those two phenomena, and the ones worshiping hollow celebrities, are not necessarily the same who then go and bash Trump for objectifying people (hence, no hypocrisy here). While that may be true for many, I think we should look at the bigger picture.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the issue goes way beyond mere diversity of views. It's about culture - and some media have admitted it themselves. It's a culture that's being shaped for years and decades, the likes of both Trump and the Kardashians being the end product of that process. We can't just bury our heads in the sand about it, and dismiss the issue with simple explanations like, "well, some hate him/her, some like him/her, that's life". That won't make the above-described process go away in any way whatsoever.


I seldom allow myself to be this blunt (and ranty), but let's face it. The mainstream media, who now flock onto the Trump-bashing bandwagon (and for very good reasons), are also the ones who are largely responsible for his rise. They're the ones who've paved the road for him becoming "a thing". In the world of rating-hunting, where the new norm is the glorification of people who are famous for just being famous as opposed to having done or created anything useful, and a world where the dominant factor is a vast majority of the public obsessed with how people on the screen look and how they talk, as opposed to focusing on what they're actually saying, it's natural that the end result would be the rise of a populist who now has a real shot at getting the highest office in the land; and as a by-product, meaningless persons who haven't contributed with anything useful to society gaining hero status. It would've been inexplicable if that didn't happen at some point.

The media and their respective audience (we, the public) are the ones who've brought both Trump and Kardashian to the highest pedestal. And this process started a long time ago. Now we see the results of it, in the gradual and unnoticed transformation of former paragons of knowledge and substance like History Channel if you like. You'd know the process is complete when you see the likes of History Channel no longer airing documentaries about World War II, but replacing them with reality programs about backyard pawnshops and junk auctions. WW2 is far back in time, after all. Who cares. Never mind the lessons we should've learned from it.

The media, even the (previously) most knowledge- and reason-orientated ones, have changed the game, and have essentially "voted" for hollow celebs, and put them into a position to be calling the shots now. It happened when Discovery Channel started airing Naked and Afraid instead of The Lost Treasures of the Yangtse. They did it when The Learning Channel quit airing programs you could learn something from, and substituted them with My 600 Pound Life. They did it when CBS removed Harvest of Shame and started airing Big Brother.

But don't get me wrong. These changes were not arbitrary. They reflected the public's perceptions and preferences, in parallel to simultaneously shaping them. Because people want to watch Survivor and Big Brother, and they don't care about some places and peoples that are thousands of miles away. They feel they don't need to have a broader perspective about the world because the world is out there and not here - so they don't demand it.

Problem is, Trump knows exactly how the public operates. And he exploits that. He conducts a Twitter campaign as opposed to a conventional one. Hey, Obama won his re-election largely because he understood how the online world affects the real one, how the social networks work, and he dispatched highly skilled professionals in those fields, to plough the field for him. They turned every corner and showered every single voter with campaign messages, and it worked. His re-election campaign was highly efficient because of all that, and despite some drawbacks in his first term that saw the public enthusiasm about him waning quite a bit, he didn't leave any chances to Mitt Romney. Because he knew how the game has changed. Trump does, too. I'm not sure Hillary Clinton does, but she may be learning fast. Which is why she abandoned her initial reluctance to meet with the media - that, alone, would've been the death of her campaign if she hadn't acted swiftly. And Obama's campaign machine may help her now quite a bit as well.

I just hope the suspicion won't turn out to be true, that people tend to hide their intentions about whom they're going to vote for, when polled by the pollsters so early - they just don't want to "look bad" for saying they'd vote for the populist. Hillary does have a lead in those polls, but they may not be reflecting the true intentions of the public properly. And there's of course the inevitability factor: i.e. some people might presume that Hillary is the winner anyway, and stay home on election day - and give Trump a boost with their absence. The extremely negative campaign may help in that, too - the more shit gets flinged both sides, the fewer people would go to vote - and that would help Trump use his core base to prop himself up.

But I digress. The fact is, the game has changed. It's mostly circuses now, with popcorn instead of bread. And Trump understands that. Circus is his home turf, and he plays the game well. The fact that he changed his campaign chief with Steve Bannon of Breitbart, known for his radical positions, shows that he understands the game. He understands the American public, he knows what they want and what they expect. They view the world through the TV screen. And they want to be shocked, they want something to get their attention, something unusual, outrageous even. That's a generalization, I know, but we're talking dominant numbers here, because elections are about majorities. And the majority of the public care about ratings, they want to be entertained. Their culture is based on television, and that's not news. Spending hours upon hours at the TV, sucking up whatever you're being constantly exposed to, inevitably makes you susceptible to manipulation. And prone to complacency. You start to believe it's more comfortable if someone else creates intellectual product for you, and does the thinking for you, because that doesn't require any effort on your part. Only chew that popcorn and click with the remote, that's all. You start to believe what you see on the screen (the "it must be true, because they said it on the TV" phenomenon). So a lie repeated a hundred times on the screen, becomes the truth. And Trump is good at that, too.

People have stopped watching stuff that teaches, or informs, or provides a variety of perspectives. They watch reality shows now - because someone does the talking, the thinking, the living, for them. There was a time when the TV journalists were almost unnoticeable on the screen. They were somewhere in the background, the event that was being reported was in the focus. Now there's the "pundit" phenomenon, that imposing figure whom their respective segments trust without question. The ones who spin reality in whatever ways their respective mentors and donors postulate - and the public is just a consumer sucking it all up.

It's like a big reality show, where the "reality" part is substituted with a show. And the presidential election is the biggest show there is. And whoever plays that game well, the one who can entertain (even through controversy - or maybe exactly because of it), the one who can draw your attention, the one who understands how ratings work, is likely to win. Political stance and policy notwithstanding.

So, be concerned. Be very concerned about election day. For this is going to be a much closer race than some might be anticipating. And it's true what some have said here: there's a lot at stake. There probably has never been so much at stake in the last century. I'm concerned, too. Hillary Clinton may have a number of flaws, some of them serious. But right now, the biggest of them all is that she doesn't seem to be able to play this game. She's not prepared for it. She may be super intelligent, and full of good intentions, and she may have a comprehensive plan for truly making America great again (or at least a tad better), she may be a skillful and experienced politician, and for good or for bad she may have Wall Street, Arlington, and most political columnists, analysts and pollsters on her side - but she cannot entertain. That's the truth. Sounds bad, I know, but that's it.

Trump is Kim Kardashian. He sucks up the air in the room even if you're just watching him on the TV in your sofa. And Hillary is the dull news anchor that no one notices while reading the world news at noon. News that no one cares about and forgets about at the minute they're done. Which of these two would you rather watch on your TV for the next 4 to 8 years? But be frank. Now extrapolate this onto the rest of the public. Then you'll know why US politics has reached as far down beneath rock-bottom as it has.

All that the rest of us around the world can do, is watch in horror. And brace ourselves for what's to come next for all of us.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 08:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Well, the media are strongly on Hillary's side as of now. Maybe this would backfire, I don't know. She's definitely not someone who creates controversy (at least not intentionally). I think the key factor in this election will be one that you mentioned only briefly: Obama's campaign machine now gearing up to work for Hillary.

I'm saying it'll be a landslide.
Edited Date: 11/10/16 08:04 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 08:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
Gods old thing, you're beginning to sound like me in one of my "get off my lawn" moments.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 08:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreamville-bg.livejournal.com
Rant or not, you're spot on for the most part. I've never seen a US election so focused on the show, instead of constructive criticism for the opponent. If a fly who landed on Hillary's face can become the top headline (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3830431/That-fly-face-not-TV-Hillary-Clinton-doesn-t-flinch-fly-LANDS-face-debate.html) within minutes of the debate's end, then that debate must have missed something essential.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 10:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
Why does this speak to my depths, I wonder?

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 11:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
Really, I think this completely misses the point. There are a lot of people in the US who don't feel very well served by the current political system and don't see things getting better. If you're a fifty year old guy in rural America with a high school diploma, you've seen the number of jobs available for someone with you skills go down and the number of people chasing those jobs go up. Mrs. Clinton wants to legalize a whole bunch of other people who have a reputation, with some reason behind it, of working very hard for not much money. It doesn't necessarily mean you're racist if you are voting in favor of your interests, Caesar Chavez held a similar position after all. Okay, being racist doesn't hurt, but still, the sentiment is also there in the UK where Poles and other white Europeans are standing in for Mexicans.

The US is becoming two very different countries; one urban, educated, and prosperous, one that is rural, less educated, and being left behind. Fixing the education system isn't going to change this, half the population will still be of average or below average education and intelligence and will be losing out. This also isn't just a US phenomenon, it's a result of adding a billion Chinese to the labor pool. It's also not going to end anytime soon, there are still a billion Indians and a couple billion from other countries who will be integrated in the future. I expect one of the unintended consequences of globalization is that the job market for nationalists, populists, and nativists will be growing.

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Date: 11/10/16 16:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] airiefairie.livejournal.com
It is unrealistic to expect that someone would come in and "fix" an entire system, especially a complex one like the educational system, with a magic wand. Not to mention that the educational system is yet another reflection of the cultural and social mores of the day, so any attempt to fix it from the outside would constitute a unnatural intervention, and probably fail due to the resistance from within the system. The way societies tend to shape themselves throughout the ages is much more complex than what a mere package of policies could do. Therefore I expect any attempt to "fix" the educational system to be mostly cosmetic.

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Date: 12/10/16 03:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Too many, sadly, including the dude in the image, conflate "education" with "proper opinion of which I can approve." I've met very, very well educated people who hold absolutely insane ideas (not necessarily about Trump).

I'd say our problem is not education, but what people learn after they graduate. One cannot, alas, conduct a democratic society's affairs without a functioning news media to inform that educated public. (See below for what I think happened there.)

(no subject)

Date: 14/10/16 14:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
The issue with this is that teaching/education in the United States is a very left wing institution. So if Borowicz is wondering what is wrong with the educational system, he has to look in the ideological mirror to start.

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Date: 11/10/16 11:24 (UTC)

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Date: 11/10/16 18:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com
Not understanding or not being able to play the game isn't much of an excuse at this point. Not to sound too Trumpy, but she's been around the game for 30 years - she knows personality, and marketing that personality, is a pretty big (if not the biggest) factor.

The leaked emails show that Clinton (and/or her team) wanted the match-up with Trump - more than any other candidate. She got what she wanted, she knew what he would do, and she knew what she needed to do. She has the government and media on her side - if he wins the election, it's because she lost it - the blame shouldn't fall anywhere else.

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 19:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
Not sure if that's entirely true. Twenty-give years of certain parts of the media drip feeding poison against her into the voting public's consciousness must count for something. I wonder if playing on a field that uneven, for so long, may really mean she has lost, or that Roops and Roger have won.

In the meantime, I don't see many major media sources in the US running this story back to back in the way Benghazi or the Wall Street connection has been wall to wall for ages:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-accused-underage-rape-lawsuit-a7352976.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-accused-underage-rape-lawsuit-a7352976.html)
Edited Date: 11/10/16 19:01 (UTC)

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Date: 11/10/16 19:47 (UTC)
garote: (machine)
From: [personal profile] garote
You make a very good case for being concerned! And both the articles linked in your second paragraph are pretty good reading.

I hesitate to run with the concept of "famous for no reason", though. I think any time we think "famous for no reason", a wiser approach would be, "famous for reasons we don't understand and/or aren't familiar with, or possibly just don't like."

Perhaps it helps to apply The Rules For Internet Popularity (i.e. hilarious, inflammatory, or clearly wrong). What Trump and Kim have in common is, they stoke the fires of cultural (and possibly class) warfare. That's a yuuuge part of Trump's free press. His (and Kim's) detractors get to make their own statements: The people who like them are dumb and have low aspirations, and the people who dislike them are smart and cultured. Never misunderestimerimate the appeal of a good juicy villain.

(For contrast, the people who are on Trump's side hate Clinton personally, and specifically, but they don't seem to have any beef with those who would vote for her, beyond their vote. That's telling. And it's something no one factors in, as far as I can tell.)

Of course there's a third group: The people who just ignore them.

That group completes a triad of opposing positions, and what's interesting to me is, there is a whole lot of gray between the position of liking them, and the position of ignoring them, but a lot less gray area between the position of hating them, and of ignoring them. That is, if you stumble across Kim (Kate/Kourtney/Koolaid/Krusty/whatever) Kardashian's media empire or coverage about her, and you have a negative reaction, it's very likely to be an intense one. Not just for what she/Trump does, or even for what they represent, but for the bad example they set to others. The apparent length of their reach is an essential part of their loathsomeness.

Do the people who denounce Kim Kardashian as a money-grubbing image-obsessed airheaded bimbo et cetera actually think they are disassembling her empire, or driving away the people who play with her free cellphone games or browse her glamor shots or watch her telenova-derived show? Or are they just - metaphorically speaking - propping up the billboard from the opposite side? Turning what would have been (and is constantly in danger of being) an unimportant sideshow into a Battle For The Soul Of Society, and giving her endless free press for their own reasons? Over this last year and change, has it been any different with Trump?

Here's a tangential, but fun, read about television: https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2015/03/20/kill-your-tv-how-bay-area-video-art-exploded-in-the-1970s/

(no subject)

Date: 11/10/16 20:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paft.livejournal.com
A:" Which of these two would you rather watch on your TV for the next 4 to 8 years? But be frank.

To be frank, I'd rather watch Hillary. But then, I've long been allergic to most reality TV as represented by the Trump and the Kardashians. Never watched them. Never wanted to.

Yes, indeed, we are reaping the whirlwind, the result of not just traditional media, but online media treating reality as if it were beside the point and reasoned argument as an affront. You can focus on TV all you want, but the fact remains, it's yesterdays technology and yesterday's media. The real, truly fertile garden of insanity was the internet. If you were to travel back in time ten years ago, and you wanted to find there the seeds of what our political landscape was going to become, one had only to look online. Free Republic, Breitbart, and Foxnation were, sadly, only the most extreme examples. You could find Trump's entire approach to "debate" everywhere, and growing in popularity, spreading like a cancer.

Cites? Booooooorrrring! Questions? To be avoided answering at all costs! Extended discussion of serious issues? Let's all emote and post funny pitchurs instead! Sexual harassment? Oh stop making such a fuss!

And yeah, there were those of us who objected, both on and offline. We were considered pretty wacky.


.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/16 02:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
You're close, Sir, very close. For example,

The media and their respective audience (we, the public) are the ones who've brought both Trump and Kardashian to the highest pedestal.

You are forgetting some big participants in this decision. What about the advertisers? What about the producers?

US television is overwhelmingly ad-supported. In the past, there has been a quality counter-weight in public television: it's still there, but its influence is seriously waning. President Johnson failed to get a secure funding source established in 1967, allowing legislators the ability to gut the new entity if they felt the need. And in 1971, they did. PBS aired a show called "Banks and the Poor," an indictment of how banks treated those who actually needed money and banking services. At the end, the show listed 135 members of Congress with ties to banks. The reaction?

...the realization that televisions could question the economic status quo—as opposed to merely cheerlead on its behalf—sent politicians who supped at the table of special interests into a tizzy. President Nixon vetoed the public-broadcasting budget authorization in 1972 to express his displeasure.

(Robert W. McChesney and John Nichols, The Death and Life of American Journalism: The Media Revolution That Will Begin the World Again, First Nation Books, 2010, p. 194.)


When reintroduced, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting was restructured, essentially weakened and more easily intimidated.

Public broadcasters quickly realized they could count on the federal government for only a fraction of their budgets if they were to produce anything at all. They turned away from their original commitment to experimental programming and serving marginalized and poor audiences, and instead began cultivating an upper-middle-class sliver of the overall audience with business and high-culture programming. This tactic provided a solid base for periodic "pledge drives" as well as a political constituency that commanded respect in Washington. It also made public broadcasting increasingly attractive to advertisers—or "underwriters," as they were euphemistically termed.

(Ibid, p. 195.)


These current PBS are your mainstream Dem voters, for the most part, wallowing in short commercials (only two minutes per hour!) for jewelry, high-end chocolates and European river cruises.

People have stopped watching stuff that teaches, or informs, or provides a variety of perspectives.

As someone who does do this, I can personally attest that educational or informative programming has fallen drastically in quality. The same force that influences PBS, pressure over funding, can rip the heart out of mainstream journalism as well. For just one example:

Former CNN head Rick Kaplan told the story of how he was confronted by Time Warner executives in 1999 or 2000 who were dissatisfied with CNN's profits despite what had been record revenues and a solid return. "But Fox News made just was much profit," Kaplan was informed, "and did so with just half the revenues of CNN, because it does not carry so many reporters on its staff. The message to Kaplan was clear: close bureaus and fire reporters, lots of them. In short, Fox News is the logical business product for an era where corporations deem journalism an unprofitable undertaking.

(John Nichols & Robert W. McChesney, Dollarocracy: How the Money and Media Election Complex is Destroying America, Nation Books, 2013, p. 212.)


With our news infrastructure collapsing, "informative" programing now really, really sucks.

Continuing, there's an insidious side effect: candidates can say whatever they want and few outlets will cover the implications. If they do, they will lose advertisers or access to news makers. The last thing a White House correspondent wants is to have none of her questions answered by the President. Which is why it has been easier for Colbert or Fallon to get Obama on his show than it has for the actual press to ask him a tough question. Even PBS was denied future access to this president after a hard(er)-hitting Frontline episode.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/16 02:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
(Part II)

Why not do as every other country has: use public money to rebuild our US news-gathering infrastructure that's been gutted by the pursuit of the most profitable? Look at newspapers in Northern Europe: they're fat and full of facts and available daily, yet Norway is one of the most "wired" countries in the world! So much for the lie that newspapers in the US are gutted "because of the Internet." And most television and radio reporters rely upon newspapers for ideas of what to cover:

A study on the crisis was released by the Pew Center for the People and the Press in 2010; it examined in exhaustive detail the "media ecology" of the city of Baltimore for one week in 2009. The object was to determine how, in this changing media moment, "original" news stories were being generated, and by whom. They tracked old media and new, newspapers, radio, television, websites, blogs, social media, even Twitter tweets from the police department.

Despite the proliferation of media, the researchers observed that "much of the 'news' people receive contained no original reporting. Fully eight out of ten stories studied simply repeated or repackaged previously published information." And where did the "original" reporting come from? More than 95 percent of original news stories were still generated by old media, particularly the Baltimore Sun newspaper. It gets worse: The Sun's production of original news stories was down more than 30 percent from ten years ago and a whopping 73 percent from twenty years ago.

(Robert McChesney, Digital Disconnect: How Capitalism is Turning The Internet Against Democracy, The New Press, 2013, pp. 177-179, I emboldened.)


Furthermore, we have to remember that "the mainstream media" outlets—especially newspapers—are owned by just a handful companies, and all of the owners are very, very wealthy. Back to Death and Life:

The last thing these corporate plutocrats want is a watchdog with sharp teeth that might bite into their bottom lines. The notion of a rich and diverse journalism engaging people from all walks of life and drawing previously discouraged and disenfranchised citizens into public life in anathema to these power players. They won't speak honestly about whey they really oppose federal policies and public subsidies that enhance journalism—at least not outside the boardrooms and country clubs. But they are more than capable of warping the debate with false premises and fear-mongering, and as such they are likely to be difficult adversaries.

(Death and Life, p. 225.)


Meaning, yes, the dumbfuckery of our media is entirely deliberate. With a vacuum of actual reportage, Faux News outlets are able to blast the public without outright lies that enrich those bottom lines. The radio outlets here are far, far worse than the television, and fewer people report on the crap they spew. Again, this is pure propaganda, not news, paid lies through and through.

So, please, Citizens Lucky Enough to Not Have to Suffer Through American "News": Chances are very, very good you have a gift, the gift of publicly supported news programming. BBC! CBC! ABC! (Australian, not American.) According stats, most countries in the world fund their public stations more per capita than the US. Which means you are all better informed.

So, please, don't fall into the trope that "education" is failing in the US, or that we all just gravitate to the most slimy telly trough in which to stick our snouts. Even PhD recipients make poor decisions when they are given appalling inadequate information through gutted news outlets. And why watch gutted news at all if it is so inaccurate and misleading? Better to check out, really, anything else.

Or read. I have to admit that is a safe option.
Edited Date: 12/10/16 02:48 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 14/10/16 12:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
Look at newspapers in Northern Europe: they're fat and full of facts and available daily, yet Norway is one of the most "wired" countries in the world! So much for the lie that newspapers in the US are gutted "because of the Internet." And most television and radio reporters rely upon newspapers for ideas of what to cover:

Sort of...
I think it's more nuanced than that. The big Newspapers and News-gathering agencies are shedding staff like mad. In the UK the Guardian is running at a loss, the Telegraph have laid off editorial staff by the bucketload. The Independent is sold to be a rich man's plaything, though he does seem to be a newspaperman of the old school. The Times is protected by Roops, but even the world's oldest daily newspaper has laid off many editorial staff over the last ten years. Even Reuters has shed stringers. There is no longer any redundancy in Fleet Street, yet folk are made redundant. And copy-editing has fallen into desuetude.

The Mail and the tabloids do have their click-bait online presence, but cui bono?

Journalism will always migrate to the new media, like poetry has; but the question is will it be sustainable as a business model or as a profession? Poetry isn't really a profession any more. Publishing a modern equivalent of Byron isn't going to buy you a country estate in the way it did for John Murray. (As an aside, journalism and news gathering seem to be following Karl's application of Hegelian analysis. As do other industries. It seems some bits of the economy get there sooner: it doesn't happen universally but in a vast number of quantum movements. And it's chaotic and therefore inherently unpredictable. How far off are we from actually requiring a basic universal wage? I can see a crisis not more than a couple of decades away if trends continue.)
Edited Date: 14/10/16 12:09 (UTC)

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(no subject)

Date: 12/10/16 06:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
I don't think this is too ranty. Moreover, it started a constructive discussion. I recommend it for that.

(no subject)

Date: 12/10/16 14:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liveonearth.livejournal.com
There's another aspect of our evolving American culture that I think plays into the rise of Rump, and it stems directly from our democratic process. It's based on a false deduction, but it is the kind of "logic" that less educated folks engage in to survive daily life. If every belief has to be respected, then every belief is of equal value. If every person gets one vote, then every opinion is of equal value. If every belief and opinion is of equal value, then none are false or wrong. If none are false or wrong, then it doesn't matter if my opinion is based on anything real, it's just as good as yours. A fact is what you believe. Hence tRump can go around spewing blatant falsehoods and have a whole group of people eating up his every word. Fact checking just doesn't matter to them, because to them there are no facts better than the ones that they believe in.

Please forgive me, I did not read the previous comments to know if someone already pointed out this cultural phenomenon.

(no subject)

Date: 13/10/16 06:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] airiefairie.livejournal.com
Interesting points.

The more you know...

Date: 13/10/16 11:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com
If Hillary Clinton is elected president, this will be the first time in history where one US president has fucked another US president.

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