Even the Pontiff is being reasonable about climate change

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

To those conservatives, both Catholic and protestant, who get really worked up when their rigid boundaries are moved a fraction of an inch to the left or the right, consider just how "radical" the Pope has really been. All these "left-wing" organizations and individuals endorse action on climate change:

- The US Department of Defense.
- Every science academy and scientific professional society in the world (197 of them).
- NASA.
- NOAA.
- All major universities.
- Practically all peer-reviewed research papers.
- 97% of climate scientists actively engaged in research.
- Republicans George P Shultz, Hank Paulson, Lindsey Graham, Bob Inglis (President of Energy and Enterprise Org), Eli Lehrer (President of Free Enterprise R Street Org), Jerry Taylor (President of the Niskanen Institute)...
- Steve LaTourette, Mike Castle, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, Sherwood Boehlert, Chris Collins, Mike Kirk, Bob Corker, Mike Bloomberg...
- According to a Yale Study, 52% of Republicans nationwide.
- ConservAmerica.org.
- CitizensClimateLobby.Org.
- The US Episcopal Church.
- The Catholic Church (obviously).
- Katharine Hayhoe (evangelical Christian and climate scientist).
- Republicen.Org.
- The US administration.
- Nearly all world leaders.

And to the uncommitted 48% of Republicans: What say you? Want to remain at the wrong side of history on yet another important issue? The Pope is Catholic, therefore he's irrelevant, HUH? Is that it?

Comments

[fieryphoenix.livejournal.com]

But... but science isn't based on consensus!!1one

I think the key here is to shoot down each individual claimant in a unique way tailored specifically to it, and then when forced to unify them all in a coherent, non-contradictory counterpoint, use the strikethrough excuse above to address the near-unanimity of them all.

The temptation of a simple answer like "maybe it's true" is just you being deceived and led astray by this "science", which we just used earlier to support one of our points.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

The Pope is one thing, but what does Jeff say?

[luzribeiro.livejournal.com]

So the Pope is going to speak before the Congress. I wonder if someone would interrupt him with yells, "You lie!"

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

The Pope is acting like Jesus? Hmmm, how weird...

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

It's so unCatholic.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

very much so actually, both in terms of history and theology.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

And to the uncommitted 48% of Republicans: What say you?

I would say that someone who complains about overly broad categorizations should be able to distinguish between Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox Christians. Furthermore, whether the earth is warming, cooling, or staying exactly as it is doesn't really change the fact that the modern environmental movement seems to be driven primarily by luddism and and that this is all about tribal signalling rather some "mandate of history".

You might as well ask a Democrat if they are prepared to abandon gun control, or "Sensitivity" politics.

(frozen) (no subject)

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

As usual, your partisan-driven complete lack of concern for the future of the human race has been duly noted.

(frozen) (no subject)

[htpcl.livejournal.com]

Cut the personal crap. NOW.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

And the modern climate denial movement or whatever it's called, they're driven by what? Their noble concern for the well-being of Freedom & Liberty and the health of the Invisible Hand of the Holy and Free Market that'll save the world like some kind of new Messiah?

It's amazing how much willingness for perpetual self-destructive delusion some people are ready to exhibit in their short-sighted thirst for coin. What's even more amazing is what a vast number of dupes are prepared to take their Kool-Aid to the last gulp just for the sake of it. Conspiracies? The liberal agenda? The whole scientific community is somehow deliberately defrauding you in order to take your precious dollars? Wow. Just... WOW. And you are talking of luddism!?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

And the modern climate denial movement or whatever it's called, they're driven by what?

Faith in technology, lack of faith in authority, the desire to not be left freezing and starving in the dark. The usual selfish drives.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

How does a more environmentally orientated modernized economy leave you freezing and starving to death? Are you even not aware of the magnitude of the hyperbole that you've been using?

Lack of faith in authority can be a useful thing - unless it's driven into pathological extremes, as is apparently the case with a large majority of this sort of people. No evidence would ever be enough for them. They've already decided where they stand. It's almost like a cult: opposing authority just for the sake of it. Look at me, I'm such a maverick! I'm a rebel! Har har har! Those millions of brown people living thousands of miles out of sight being drowned in floods or scorched by draught don't matter, since I can't see them on my TeeVee. It's gonna snow in my town this January, so fuck you scientists and your fancy scientific mumbo-jumbo! You know nothing, my gut knows everything.

I feel a thousand brain cells die in my head every time I exchange a few sentences with that sort of troglodyte.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

How does a more environmentally orientated modernized economy leave you freezing and starving to death? Are you even not aware of the magnitude of the hyperbole that you've been using?

Do you really think that we can feed 7,000,000,000+ people without industrial agriculture? Or provide them with anything resembling a "first world" quality of life without plentiful electricity?

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Why are you creating the false dichotomy environmentally orientated modern economy vs industrial agriculture? Is there a fallacy that you are not willing to employ?

[airiefairie.livejournal.com]

Funny that you mentioned starving (http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6271) in the dark (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/major-u-s-cities-face-more-blackouts-under-climate-change/) and freezing to death (http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/09/03/new_study_links_polar_vortex_to_climate_change.html). Or dying of more violent causes (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-climate-change-cause-conflict/).

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

Well if we accept the premise that the world is already over it's "carrying capacity" as it is these deaths are a good thing. Fewer people means less impact on the environment.


I reject this line of thinking, which is why I am a "denier".

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

I don't understand the notion of being against environmentally friendly actions on principle. Is it really so bad if we make the world a better place, whatever the reason?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

It's not about environment. That's just a convenient distraction.

It's about wealth redistribution, and whether or not we should let Malthus determine policy.

[luvdovz.livejournal.com]

Yeah sure, it's all about stealing your money. Everyone and everything is after your money.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Nah, we should just let humanity determine policy, as opposed to Mammon. Isn't that what Jesus would have wanted?

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

When the "Mine is mine" principle speaks, Jesus suddenly becomes moot. Even to the most pious of types.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's

[kylinrouge.livejournal.com]

You missed my point. I'm talking about environmentally friendly actions no matter the reason. I'm literally just repeating my last post here. If we stop dumping sludge into a river because of this, what is the harm exactly?

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

That's not what the fight is about though.

The argument is not clean rivers vs. dirty rivers. It's whether a ~5% reduction in CO2 emissions is worth a ~20% hike in food or gas prices. Or whether regulatory agents should be bound by their own regulations.

If you're going to build a political platform around the evils of fossil fuels or industrial agriculture you need to remember that the coal-miners and farmers also get a vote.