too small to save: we're back!

[ihatepeoplealot.livejournal.com]

Were you one of those liberal cuckoos who thought the US was already in recovery?
Welcome to reality, dodo-heads. Apparently over 400 banks across the country are shitting their pants and reaching into empty pockets.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fdics-problem-list-of-troubled-banks-tops-400-2009-08-27

Comments

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

What you said has no basis. I'm in college so that contradicts my ability to know a lot of young liberals? How so?

I never said that young liberals reflect the entirety of what liberalism stands for. Straw men ahoy.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Beyond the fact that you're grossly biased, the fact that you base the political metric of what "young liberals" want/expect on what you apparently overheard while at college. All you've brought to the table so far is one quote that wasn't clarified at any time.

"I won't have to work to do X" doesn't automatically mean "I won't have to work [at a job]", but instead could mean "I won't have to go to great efforts to do X", but since it wasn't clarified or anything, we'll never know. So I expect your out-the-gate bias to not care to find out what a random person meant when saying that.

I never said that young liberals reflect the entirety of what liberalism stands for. Straw men ahoy.

The strawman is your claim that you know what all young liberals expect based on your experiences "at college", which is the silliest appeal to authority I've heard in awhile.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

How is any of that relevant? I go to Indiana University. Aside from the fact that it's located in Indiana, the university's student makeup is very much liberal, as it is with many universities. My point is that because I go to such a university, I come in contact with a lot of young liberals. Not seeing where any of that is contradicted.

I've been trying to find the actual quote, and once I do, I will post it. It was very specific.

Please quote precisely where I said I know what "all young liberals expect."
You also do not seem to understand what Appeal to Authority is.

Excuse me for a few hours.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

How is any of that relevant?

The fact that you're horribly biased and thus very likely to be selective of what you're mentioning (if not completely misinterpreting and/or misreporting) is completely relevant.

I've been trying to find the actual quote, and once I do, I will post it. It was very specific.

Hope to see it soon, then!

Please quote precisely where I said I know what "all young liberals expect."

I've been trying to find the actual quote, and once I do, I will post it. It was very specific.

You also do not seem to understand what Appeal to Authority is.

No I'm quite aware of what it means, but thank you for your concern.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

It's not selective to say a lot of students here are young and liberal. Unless you're talking about the person in particular that thinks Obama shits rainbows and sunshine, but I can show you the precise quote, considering I found it lodged within my laptop:

everything will be fine when barack obama becomes president. you'll see.he will fix everything. he promised. no more crime, no more racism, no more wars, we'll all be equal, so there is no reason to kill. he said choose hope over fear.I know I'm looking forward to a better life.I won't have to worry about paying for my house anymore because my government will take care of me and barack obama loves me. no more murders, no more crime.

So now it's your turn for a quote.
And while you're at it I'd like for you to utilise your fallacy knowledge by explaining how saying I know a lot of young liberals based on my stays at college is an appeal to authority.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

...your source is uncited material from your laptop?

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

Well, duh. I told you somebody personally said it to me. I don't have an article to source. What on Earth were you expecting?

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

something from a valid source.

that'll show me.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

...You want me to find a valid source for a personal conversation? Honestly, I figured you understood that no source would be provided under these circumstances. I said that I've had conversations with people who really think Obama is the cure-all for America. I don't have valid sources for that. Obviously I don't record people speaking for future reference and even more obviously I don't plaster private conversations all over valid websites for confirmation.

But once again:
So now it's your turn for a quote.
And while you're at it I'd like for you to utilise your fallacy knowledge by explaining how saying I know a lot of young liberals based on my stays at college is an appeal to authority.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Yes I expect something better than a clearly biased source who just happened to find an unsourced quote on a laptop which proves the point being made.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

What is the point being made?
And I apologise that you, for some reason or other, expected more from a private conversation. I am not trying to prove the theory of relativity, I am simply saying that some people are stupid enough to have voted under the false understanding that Obama would cater to their every whim. I assume this goes without saying and that this shouldn't be treated as something that needs irrefutable evidence to be plausible.

Are you going to ignore my requests or what?

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

It seems we're done here. You brought nothing to the table except a quote you claim to have collected yourself that I might as well assume you fabricated.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

You certainly could, since I'm sure a screenshot of the email wouldn't count as anything to you.

But I'm glad we seem to be in agreement that you 1) know I did not ever say I know what all young liberals expect and 2) do not appear to understand the Appeal to Authority fallacy.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

Your "source" was a personal conversation...and then
you question HIM to provide a quote????

And it's an appeal to authority because you're asking us to treat you as an "expert" in generalizing about the college demographic based on your personal experience... rather than using a survey, poll, or otherwise objective source of data.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

Yes, a quote from our conversation right here where he said I claimed to know what all young liberals expect. Clearly you can see that nowhere during the conversation did I say such a thing.
I'm not not understanding why he and apparently you are expecting me to formally source such an informal mentioning. I am not using that personal email as proof of anything, I simply brought it up as a case in point. You really don't need to prove that crazy Obama lovers exist. People just know they do.

The strawman is your claim that you know what all young liberals expect based on your experiences "at college", which is the silliest appeal to authority I've heard in awhile.

Ironic that he would call my "claim that I know what all young liberals expect" a straw man when I didn't even say that - or anything even close to that. Allow me to reiterate my point - as a college student, I come in contact with a lot of liberals. I was not using this knowledge to explain the aforementioned claim that I know what all young liberals expect. I was simply saying that because of my environment I come in contact with a lot of people belonging to a certain demographic. This is equivalent to a cashier at a craft store saying because of her environment she comes in contact with a lot of copic markers. That in no way is an Appeal to Authority fallacy.
Now, it would have been if I had said, say, "I'm a college student that comes in contact with a lot of young liberals. I of all people would know that young liberals are all delusional." But I, of course, did not, and my "authority" wasn't authority used to ensure trust in anybody.

[chessdev.livejournal.com]

I'm a college student. Trust me when I say I know a lot.

While you may not have intended this to sound like an appear to authority ... it *does* sound like an appeal to authority. After all,
being that you're a college student -- you know a lot of them, therefore we should trust your interpretation as being correct.

The problem was not that you argued they existed, but rather you said "Trust me when I say" which sorta sounds like an appeal to authority.

And maybe you *are* in the context of this conversation -- except that it still ultimatley uses *personal* experience to justify what is a statement against liberals in general.

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

Saying I am a college student and therefore know a lot of liberal peers is not suitable for an argument. For instance, I am not saying I know a lot about liberals because I know a lot of them. I was essentially asked if I knew a lot. I answered yes with the explanation that I am in college.

An Appeal to Authority fallacy rests on a person who claims that they or somebody they are quoting/using in the argument is an expert/holds expertise in a subject and therefore their claim X is true. In my situation we are missing the latter portion of information required to be a fallacy - I am not claiming knowledge or making an argument. I am simply saying I am in college and know a lot of young liberals. My bad if I gave off any fallacious vibe.

I'll be gone for a few days and might not get a chance to respond to any further replies, so apologies ahead of time.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

"Look, hon, here is what the nice man is trying to get you to understand. Try not to be obtuse, ok?"

I give you a lot of credit, that was a new low in condescension. Sexist and ageist impressive.

[geezer-also.livejournal.com]

OK, I'll buy that. Altho the whole thing was a bit silly. Pantsu was baited and swallowed hook line and sinker, but Gunslinger was right. ;D

(I hadn't gotten the impression you were a fascist, much less a conservative, sorry, I'll try to pay more attention :D

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that the way you treat me has suddenly changed now that you know I am still in university. Addressing me with derogatory terms, asking me if I've yet studied a certain course (which, in this case, I have - and several times)... That is not befitting a respectable argument.

You also seem to misunderstand the point here. My personal conversation was not the "fact"; the fact is that there are people capable of delusional views of President Obama.
You also seem to believe I am trying to use one instance as proof that liberals at large are disillusioned into believing Obama will fix all of their problems. I never said this, as you can see for yourself if you reread the entire conversation. I simply said I've met a few crazy Obama supporters, quoting a past discussion with one as evidence that yes, people like that do, unfortunately, exist. The conversation was not quoted as evidence of anything else, most certainly not evidence that all such liberals have the same delusional mentality.
I also was not using that conversation as proof that there are "young liberals all over campus." First and foremost, the conversation was not one that took place between me and a fellow student. It was a conversation with an older individual I know only online. Secondly, that conversation and my statement that there are quite a few young liberals on my campus were unrelated in every other aspect as well.

As for my knowledge of my peers - yes, actually, I did do a formal poll for my political science course last year. Of course I am not using the poll as evidence that my assumption of their political stance is correct; keep in mind that I was in college during the election. It would make sense for me to take the word of the students when they directly tell me what their affiliation is.

If you want to discuss this further I would prefer that you treat me as the adult I am. Otherwise it simply looks bad on you.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

I simply said I've met a few crazy Obama supporters, quoting a past discussion with one as evidence that yes, people like that do, unfortunately, exist.

So what does that prove, exactly, on a greater scale?

[pantsu.livejournal.com]

Nothing. There seems to be a general misunderstanding that I was trying to use that information to prove something greater.
No. That was it. All I was saying was that people like that do exist, and then I gave an example.