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talkpoliticsWe have been frequently hearing the phrase, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim" in recent times. Well, if we investigate a little, turns out that is not true at all.
No doubt, there are many Muslims who have committed or are perpared to commit horrible atrocities in the name of Allah. The recent events in France, Nigeria and the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East confirm this. Still, many might be surprised, but the majority of the terrorist attacks on American and European soil are actually not committed by Muslims.
As Europol has stated in their report from last year, the bulk of the terrorist attacks in Europe are committed by separatist groups. For example, there were 152 terorrist attacks in Europe for 2013, and only two of them were out of "religious motivations", while 84 were for ethnic, nationalist and separatist reasons.
For example, the FLNC (the national front for the liberation of Corsica), which is an armed separatist movement in France, has made simultaneous attacks on police stations in several French cities in 2013, using RPGs. In Greece, at the end of 2013 the left-wing group calling itself the "People's armed revolutionary forces" shot two members of the right-wing Golden Dawn party. In Italy, the anarchist FAI group participated in a number of terrorist attacks, including mailing bombs to journalists. The list could go on.
The stats could get really heavy if we include one of the most infamous attacks in Europe, Anders Breivik's shooting spree in 2011 when he killed 77 people in Norway.
It might sound shocking, but there are even Buddhist terrorists. These extremists regularly kill civilian Muslims in Myanmar, and just a few months ago they burned Muslim houses in Sri Lanka, killing their residents.
Also very little is heard in the media about the Jewish terrorists. In a report on terrorism in 2013 by the Department of State, 399 acts of terror have been described, perpetrated by Israeli settlers in the so called "price tag" operations. These Jewish terrorists attack civilian Palestinians. 93 people have been injured so far, dozens of mosques and Christian churches have been subject to vandalism.
In the US, the share of terror acts committed by Muslims is almost as negligible as in Europe. An FBI research on terrorism on US territory spanning a period between 1980 and 2005 has found that 94% of the terror attacks have been committed by non-Muslims. In fact, 42% of the terror attacks are done by criminal Latino gangs, followed by left-wing extremists (24%).
Compared to the paranoia about Islamic terrorism, too little exposition is granted to Christian fundamentalist terrorists who have attacked abortion clinics throughout the US, although these attacks generally happen to every one out of five of these specialised health institutions.
A few months ago, 3 Americans were killed in the Boston marathon bombing. That same year, 5 Americans had been killed by toddlers in gun-related incidents. While that is not terrorism of course, it still is an issue that needs addressing, probably as much as the threat of terrorism does.
Of course, all that said, it doesn't mean we should be "burying our head in the sand" as has recently been suggested here, and turning the other way to Islamic extremism - just like any other type of extremism, to that matter. On the other hand though, deliberately flaming up anti-Muslim prejudices that have already been there, but are now being pumped up out of proportion, and manufacturing selective outrage against one particular group of people while neglecting all the other atrocities committed by others, is more than detrimental to developing a more harmonious society in the long term.
No doubt, there are many Muslims who have committed or are perpared to commit horrible atrocities in the name of Allah. The recent events in France, Nigeria and the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East confirm this. Still, many might be surprised, but the majority of the terrorist attacks on American and European soil are actually not committed by Muslims.
As Europol has stated in their report from last year, the bulk of the terrorist attacks in Europe are committed by separatist groups. For example, there were 152 terorrist attacks in Europe for 2013, and only two of them were out of "religious motivations", while 84 were for ethnic, nationalist and separatist reasons.
For example, the FLNC (the national front for the liberation of Corsica), which is an armed separatist movement in France, has made simultaneous attacks on police stations in several French cities in 2013, using RPGs. In Greece, at the end of 2013 the left-wing group calling itself the "People's armed revolutionary forces" shot two members of the right-wing Golden Dawn party. In Italy, the anarchist FAI group participated in a number of terrorist attacks, including mailing bombs to journalists. The list could go on.
The stats could get really heavy if we include one of the most infamous attacks in Europe, Anders Breivik's shooting spree in 2011 when he killed 77 people in Norway.
It might sound shocking, but there are even Buddhist terrorists. These extremists regularly kill civilian Muslims in Myanmar, and just a few months ago they burned Muslim houses in Sri Lanka, killing their residents.
Also very little is heard in the media about the Jewish terrorists. In a report on terrorism in 2013 by the Department of State, 399 acts of terror have been described, perpetrated by Israeli settlers in the so called "price tag" operations. These Jewish terrorists attack civilian Palestinians. 93 people have been injured so far, dozens of mosques and Christian churches have been subject to vandalism.
In the US, the share of terror acts committed by Muslims is almost as negligible as in Europe. An FBI research on terrorism on US territory spanning a period between 1980 and 2005 has found that 94% of the terror attacks have been committed by non-Muslims. In fact, 42% of the terror attacks are done by criminal Latino gangs, followed by left-wing extremists (24%).
Compared to the paranoia about Islamic terrorism, too little exposition is granted to Christian fundamentalist terrorists who have attacked abortion clinics throughout the US, although these attacks generally happen to every one out of five of these specialised health institutions.
A few months ago, 3 Americans were killed in the Boston marathon bombing. That same year, 5 Americans had been killed by toddlers in gun-related incidents. While that is not terrorism of course, it still is an issue that needs addressing, probably as much as the threat of terrorism does.
Of course, all that said, it doesn't mean we should be "burying our head in the sand" as has recently been suggested here, and turning the other way to Islamic extremism - just like any other type of extremism, to that matter. On the other hand though, deliberately flaming up anti-Muslim prejudices that have already been there, but are now being pumped up out of proportion, and manufacturing selective outrage against one particular group of people while neglecting all the other atrocities committed by others, is more than detrimental to developing a more harmonious society in the long term.
(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 07:10 (UTC)Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 22/1/15 19:39 (UTC)Both yourself and Htpcl have taken the position that this is not "a clash of civilizations" but I disagree. Pointing out that there are terrorist's of other stripes doesn't negate the fact that there seems to be something in modern Islam that makes it's adherents more prone to terrorism than say Buddhism. The existence of a Buddhist terrorist movement would not be "shocking" otherwise. Fact of the matter is that while repeated poling has shown that 72 - 81% of Muslims surveyed oppose these killings (http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf) there are still between 28 - 19% who do not, or have no strong feelings one way or the other. That is not "a few bad apples" that is one 5th to a Quarter of the population. This is not a problem that can be solved by "more inclusion" because when you allow immigration in a democracy are inviting in your future rulers. One culture or the other must yield.
Further more, while there are certainly terrorists of many colors and ideologies not all terrorism is equal and not all terrorists are equally dangerous. I would contend that there is a significant difference between attempting to burn down an unoccupied building in the dead of night and filling up a mass grave. In my opinion treating all terrorism as equally horrific shows a gross disregard for the value of human life. 20 people killed by anti-abortion activists is not in the same ballpark as the thousands killed in the name of Mohamed.
Finally, I find it rather disingenuous to cite accidental deaths in a discussion of intentional killings. To my knowledge there is no one who is seriously arguing that such accidents are a good thing. And if we are going to go down that rout there are far bigger easier targets. Traffic accidents kill way more people than guns (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm) and there is no constitutionally protected "right to drive". Ditto swimming pools.
(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 20:56 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 20:59 (UTC)Not surprised by the lack of spectrum in this black-and-white world that's being displayed over there - either one culture yields and the other wins, or vice versa, with no middle ground in between. We've heard that song before. Only, there were more fanfares and battle drums back then.
(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 22:43 (UTC)Is there any "middle ground" in your reply?
(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 22:46 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 23:07 (UTC)I've posted this before but there is an anecdote attributed to Sir Charles Napier, commander of the British Colonial Garrison in India. It involves a complaint brought to him about the British prohibition on "Sati", the Hindu custom of burning a man's widow alive on her husband's funeral pyre.
After listening to the priest's appeals he replied: "Be it so. if the burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to our customs." (http://books.google.com/books?id=d84BAAAAMAAJ&vq=suttee&dq=History%20of%20the%20Administration%20of%20Scinde&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q&f=false)
There are a lot of people who want to go on
burning women alivebeheading blasphemers, and performing honor killings, or otherwise view that kind of behavior as acceptable.My position is that such people have no place in a secular society.
(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 00:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 08:29 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 14:43 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 19:19 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 20:10 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 20:17 (UTC)Do you have a right to force your decadent western morality on immigrants or don't you?
(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 20:20 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 22:21 (UTC)-luvdovz
Blasphemy laws, and honor killings, and sectarian violence will be the new normal until someone decides otherwise, and backs that decision with steel and blood. Ironic that old-fashioned theocracy would return to prominence cloaked in the ideals of tolerance and multi-culturalism.
(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 22:39 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 22:45 (UTC)Thank you. That is exactly my point.
(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 22/1/15 22:49 (UTC)I still think that you are burying your head in the sand if you are going to argue Islam is no worse than any other particular brand of ideology. Communism is not inherently violent either, nor is fascism, but we all know how they ended up in practice.
(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 23/1/15 07:00 (UTC)(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 23/1/15 07:02 (UTC)OK here's the deal. This is the last time I'm formulating this as a request. The next time I'll address you on other terms.
For one last time, and as clearly as possible: STOP DERAILING WITH FALLACY.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 24/1/15 23:50 (UTC)RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 08:30 (UTC)(frozen) RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 14:44 (UTC)(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 18:04 (UTC)(frozen) RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 19:22 (UTC)(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 19:43 (UTC)You just can't refrain from that even for a minute, can you?
(frozen) RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 19:46 (UTC)(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 25/1/15 19:47 (UTC)(frozen) RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 19:51 (UTC)Here we go again.
You've just started accumulating transgressions again. Go ahead, shoot yourself in the leg.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 20:02 (UTC)As far as condemnation of atrocities go, I literally do not see a single white, conservative Christian condemning atrocities committed in the name of Jesus on anything like the basis they want all Muslims to do it on this forum and offlline. As Christians don't give a shit about people massacring people in the name of Jesus, by the same logic applied to Islam, Christianity is a barely civilized totalitarian religion of savages incapable of co-existing with a civilized state unless the religion is so defanged as to forget its own theology in large part.
And I apologize for the way the 'a big if insofar as these discussions go' comment came across. I meant it as a tongue in cheek comment, but re-reading the post, it was too easily read as a direct insult even when not intended to be. You have again my full apologies for giving an insult where one was not intended, as well as for the genuine insult in the second comment.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 20:06 (UTC)And before you say "But but Taliban," so long as Ahmed Shah Massoud and the Northern Alliance were still leading a civil war, the Taliban no more ruled Afghanistan than did the USSR or United States in their wars.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 22:05 (UTC)Beyond that it's a simple matter of whether or not we are willing to tolerate their existence.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 21:48 (UTC)Likewise your point about "condemnation of atrocities" assumes that there are Christians committing comparable atrocities for explicitly religious reasons with the tactic approval and support of main-stream Clerical organizations. Off the top of my head, the last 60 years has seen 3,000 killed in the Irish Troubles, another 5,000 or so killed killed by Copts and Yazidi in middle eastern sectarian violence, 300 give or take killed by the Christian Identity movement (KKK, et al) and 30 or so killed in anti-abortion violence. Excluding the Irish troubles, all were roundly condemned by the Catholic Church and majority of protestant organizations. There has not been a Christian movement to match ISIL or Boko Haram in viciousness and popularity in living memory. In short, Christianity has already been "defanged" for the most part. Why shouldn't Islam be held to a similar standard of conduct?
There is also a phenomena known as "white guilt" that may want to look into.
Don't sweat the rest, I've got thick skin.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 25/1/15 22:52 (UTC)There's been quite a few of them in the Third World. The Lord's Resistance Army is just the one that got Hashtag activism after it, dictators like Rios Montt show that Christians really do emerge with genocidal intent and nothing happens to them in condemnation terms. Then there's Patrick "Genocide Profiteer" Robertson and his treatment as a reputable figure by a not-insignificant portion of the Right.
Honestly, white guilt ain't my problem. It's self-absorbed and it doesn't alter the evils that need to be altered. So that's a false dichotomy.
RE: Not all repressive dictatorships are marxist...
Date: 26/1/15 02:03 (UTC)Kony and the LRA have been condemned and do not enjoy much in the way of support, popular or otherwise outside of the territory they control. If you have evidence to the contrary i'd like to see it.
The Rios Montt example further weakens your arguement seeing as how the Roman Catholic Church was instrumental in bringing his crimes to light and securing his indictment.
If your intent was to demontrate the existance of some sort of double standard youre going to have to do better than that.