[identity profile] nairiporter.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
When does irrational fear of science become detrimental to society at large? Examples abound. So here is one.

Vaccine preventable outbreaks are real


A few things to note:

- All of that red, which seems to dominate? It's measles. It's even peeking through in the United States, and it's smothering the United Kingdom.
- If you get rid of the measles, you can start to see mumps. Again, crushing the UK and popping up in the US.
- Both measles and mumps are part of the MMR vaccine.
- Almost all the whooping cough is in the United States.


It is really astounding to see how in the 21st century, people frequently take the bait of opinion passing for 'fact', and belief over solid science. The problem is, lots of folks find science boring and tedious at school, and then proceed to fear it and view it with suspicion as adults - which then reflects on society at large, and, as demonstrated above, can have real consequences to entire generations.

So why is science so boring to so many people? Is it perhaps because the education system is framed in such a way that it demands of students to memorise stuff without necessarily understanding it, just for the short-term goal of getting good grades at school and nothing beyond that? Is it because the education process in its present form tends to scare and disgust people away from science at an early age, rather than fascinating them and making them hungrier for actual scientific knowledge? Is it people's inherent laziness to think outside the box of their daily routine and transcend the conventions of their social environment, which is a general requirement for abandoning every-day "common sense" and understanding scientific knowledge? Is it that people are supicious of "cold", rational knowledge, and tend to favour emotion and sentiment over reason as more valuable?

Science makes statements based on currently available information. It never asserts something to be the absolute truth, because that would require infinite knowledge - and that's the aspect of science which is probably the most misunderstood, most misused, abused, and cited most often as a flaw of science, rather than being acknowledged as science's most valuable asset. Because people prefer to be presented with definite, absolute answers to complex questions about complex phenomena. And this apparent ambiguity in science could be undesirably confusing for them.

These things may sound too abstract and philosophical, but when we move to real-life examples like the above, things could get really serious. One would expect that in the 21st century, the developed industrialised societies would have embraced rationalism, reason and the scientific approach a long time ago. And for the most part they truly have. But there is also this segment of society that's not insignificant at all, which remains stuck in some semi-ignorant state of Medievalism that has existed since time immemorial.

Measles and whooping cough could have been and should have been eradicated from the face of Earth a long time ago. This is certainly a man-made tragedy that could have been rendered extinct by now. And I'm not only talking about the developed world. The wealthy nations have had all the means and capacity to see to it that the Third World gets completely vaccinated, with all the relevant information provided to the families involved. Because nothing can be more powerful a motivation than understanding a problem and grasping the urgent necessity to tackle it in an adequate way.

Granted, there are caveats to an issue as complex as vaccination. There are circumstances when certain health conditions prevent particular kids from being vaccinated. Many vaccines that are currently developed do not provide a complete resistance to a virus. A virus exposed to an incomplete resistance could actually end up being resistant not only to the vaccination but to the treatment itself, too, and thus become truly deadly. These are issues that ought to be investigated, tackled, and explained. The alternative is succumbing to near-archaic levels of ignorance and superstition, and risking countless lives and social and economic loss in the process, in case an epidemic outbreak potentially reaches critical proportions.

The irrational factor remains the main detriment to addressing these issues in an efficient way. People's proneness to falling for hyperbolic hysteria and manipulative tricks such as turning anecdata into presumed data, is part of this. To put it simply: in most cases, especially with the mainstream vaccinations, complications are far more likely to arise from illness than from vaccination - but that fact is often overlooked by those who have already got their preconceived notions deeply embedded in their mindset. Example:


A research on the adverse reactions to the HPV vaccine Ceravix, reported between April 2008 and September 2009 demonstrates the enormous discrepancy between the number of vaccinations and the occurrence of adverse reactions from them - a ratio which of course is often represented in a severely distorted manner to the public.

It is true that a lot of thought should be invested into the way we approach vaccinations. Medicine abounds of examples of horrific mistakes when we thought something was being done right, until it was found out it had all been wrong. It is also true that selling new vaccination (possibly enhanced through the compulsory element) is a major profitable business worldwide, in many cases facilitated by government legislation. Which is what makes issues such as mandatory vaccinations not just a medical, but more an economic, and thus, political issue as well.

(no subject)

Date: 4/2/14 18:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Very cool news earlier this week. India will be declared polio free. (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2014-01-13/india/46148966_1_polio-case-polio-drops-high-risk-states) It while it may seem like a long time ago, in my childhood, I remember seeing children wearing leg braces as a consequence from their infection. One of the worst scourges has been nearly wiped out. Incidentally: Salk also gave away his vaccine for the greater good of humanity; it's estimated he could have earned 7 BILLION in profits had he not done this. He was remarkable man.

(no subject)

Date: 4/2/14 18:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

(no subject)

Date: 4/2/14 22:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
I was really hoping that was going to be the answer.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:32 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 11/2/14 04:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moonshaz.livejournal.com
Awesome!

(no subject)

Date: 4/2/14 20:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Indeed, until a disease is completely eradicated it would keep coming back at us to bite us on the ass, and in a much worse form every next time. Pathogens do evolve all the time, and if left alone they'd evolve into a brand new disease that we have no treatment for, or prevention against.

But of course plenty of deluded folk would beg to differ! They'd find all sorts of superstitious justifications like "vaccines cause autism" and other such nonsense, all the while, the resources for eradicating a number of preventable diseases in the whole world being right there the whole time. But no, we're just too preoccupied with finding new ways to blow up stuff and kill people.

Hope dies last that some time in the unforeseeable future, homo sapiens would evolve into something at least partially resembling a truly thinking species, but I ain't seeing that coming anytime soon. Sorry, Darwin.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 03:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elephantus45.livejournal.com
As I'm sitting here with sore arms from several vaccinations I got yesterday (going to Africa, was a bunch of needles and pills etc) I remember my mom telling me they did polio vaccinations at school. Just lined everyone up- bam, bam, bam.

We don't see old people whose backs were bent from tuberculosis, or limp limbs from polio (and most people don't know the braces on Forrest Gump's legs were because of polio), and we don't lose 1 in 5 childhood friends to measles anymore. I think that because we don't see that, we (as a population...i guess?) don't feel the urgent need to vaccinate any more. Parents go "Oh I had chicken pox, measles/mumps can't be that much worse."

There are so many other things to die from. I don't understand. And even if it did cause autism, is autism really to be that feared? What does that really say...I'd rather my kid die than have autism? eh.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 05:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
For most of post-neolithic human history smallpox killed about 10% of the population; including half a billion in the 20th century alone, and it was eradicated by the time it was 4/5ths done.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
There was a child at my high school with a leg length difference due to polio.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 04:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
What's really worrying is that the anti-vacc movement is the most bipartisan group of wackos out there.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 07:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com
The power of bipartisanship! It really gets things done! (Or not done).

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Are they truly bipartisan? I would have expected that they lean heavily toward the Tea Party.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 21:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] usekh.livejournal.com
Nope they are full of anti-science hippies and the like as well.

(no subject)

Date: 6/2/14 19:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I can understand why hippies would eschew vaccinating their children. There is no need for kids to be protected from communicable diseases when they smell so strongly of patchouli oil that other kids will not get near enough to infect them.

(no subject)

Date: 6/2/14 02:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Really?

Most of the anti-vaccers I've encountered or heard about have been of yuppie or ultra-green variety. sure you've got the occasional "Christian Scientist" but they seem to be a marked minority.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 08:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com


This is a girl with whooping cough. The US is currently having a growing outbreak of the disease on its hands, and of other preventable diseases because idiot parents listen to whackjobs like Jenny McCarthy, a lady who thinks she cured her son of autism.

Please get your kids vaccinated. Vaccines are not made of mercury, they don't give your kids autism, and they've saved countless lives.

Don't be an ignorant asshole who helps create the next epidemic.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 15:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
The problems isn't that science is boring to people, it's that they have this need to feel special and superior to everyone else. They feel that they know the truth, they know the secrets to societies problems. The same thing manifests itself with GM foods and Organic farming.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 15:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
The same thing manifests itself with GM foods and Organic farming.

Or Creationists.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 15:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
I think that is largely the fault of faith, which has little to do with science and often conflicts with it. But ya, I think you can make that argument about Creationists.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Please, please, the polite term is Intelligent Design Phreaks.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 15:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
I pity those who genuinely feel that way about science. "They just want to feel superior to me".

It must be a dark and scary world that you inhabit.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 15:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
I think you read my comment wrong.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 18:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
Feel free to elaborate on why you think the world I live in is a "dark and scary" place then, because that doesn't follow from what I said.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 18:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Gratitude for deigning that liberty upon me.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 19:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
The reference was clearly a pro-science one.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I did not realize that General Motors is now in the food business.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
I'm sure you know what I meant, but in case you don't GM = genetically modified.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 20:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
The problems isn't that science is boring to people, it's that they have this need to feel special and superior to everyone else

Science isn't a "they". Its a method, an approach to understanding our universe. And its a method that yields useful results. Not sure how you want to define superior, but "useful results" seems a good start.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 22:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
They == People who ignore science.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 16:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
What we need is a vaccine that is effective in preventing religious fundamentalism.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 17:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Good luck with that.

(no subject)

Date: 5/2/14 21:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Why it was prolly a bad idea for Bill Nye to Debate Ken Ham
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-mcelwee/bill-nye-ken-ham-debate_b_4723766.html)


The vast majority of right-wing Christian fundamentalists in the U.S. are evangelicals, followers of an offshoot of Protestantism. Protestantism is based on the premise that truth about God and his relationship with the world can be discovered by individuals, regardless of their level of education or social status. Because of its roots in a schism motivated by a distrust of religious experts (priests, bishops, the pope), Protestantism today is still highly individualistic. In the United States, Protestantism has been mixed with the similarly individualistic American frontier mythos, fomenting broad anti-intellectualism.

Richard Hofstadter's classic, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life," perfectly summarizes the American distaste for intellectualism and how egalitarian sentiments became intertwined with religion. He and Walter Lippmann point to the first wave of opposition to Darwinian evolution theory, led by William Jennings Bryan, as the quintessential example of the convergence of anti-intellectualism, the egalitarian spirit and religion. Bryan worried about the conflation of Darwinian evolution theory and capitalist economics that allowed elites to declare themselves superior to lower classes. He felt that the teaching of evolution challenged popular democracy: "What right have the evolutionists -- a relatively small percentage of the population -- to teach at public expense a so-called scientific interpretation of the Bible when orthodox Christians are not permitted to teach an orthodox interpretation of the Bible?" He notes further, "The one beauty of the word of God, is that it does not take an expert to understand it."

This American distrust of experts isn't confined to religion. It explains the popularity of books like "Wrong" by David Freedman (a book that purports to show "why experts are wrong") that take those snobbish "experts" down a peg. The delightfully cynical H.L. Mencken writes, "The agents of such quackeries gain their converts by the simple process of reducing the inordinately complex to the absurdly simple. Unless a man is already equipped with a considerable knowledge of chemistry, bacteriology and physiology, no one can ever hope to make him understand what is meant by the term anaphylaxis, but any man, if only he be idiot enough, can grasp the whole theory of chiropractic in twenty minutes."
Edited Date: 5/2/14 21:21 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 6/2/14 19:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I disagree with that particular assessment of fundamentalist thinking. Rather than being based on the premise that truth about the material Creator of the flat and immobile Earth can be discovered by individuals, it is based on the assumption that said Creator matters. Fundamentalists do no come to their notion of truth through individual discernment, but through dogmatic conditioning. It demands a strict discipline of ignoring all of the signs pointing away from fundamentalist doctrine out of fear of eternal torment.

The notion that Roman bishops and the pontifex maximus could be considered "experts" on theology is laughable. That would be like considering George Bush the elder to be an expert on broccoli.

(no subject)

Date: 6/2/14 19:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
That comment is no shock because in many ways, your postings and logic regarding modern treatment of mental health is pretty similar to Ken Ham's.

(no subject)

Date: 6/2/14 19:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
"Modern" treatment of mental patients is about as far removed from medieval medicine as is Ken Ham's mindset.

(no subject)

Date: 6/2/14 19:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
But we don't think you've made that case yet.

(no subject)

Date: 7/2/14 19:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
"We" will never think so not matter how well it is made, nor how often.

(no subject)

Date: 7/2/14 19:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
That's a very creationist line. Very much in line with this month's topic!

(no subject)

Date: 11/2/14 16:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Godwin alert!

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