[identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
People who have lived their entire lives in a slavish existence have no experience of what it means to live freely. If someone were to tell them that what they call freedom is actually quite unfree, they might respond with strong emotions. Their reaction could be so severe that they kill or injure the individual who delivers the message. They might go so far as to claim religious persecution and have the messenger brought up on charges of crimes against humanity. In a previous time and place, the messenger would be strapped to a pole atop a pile of flaming fuel or tacked to an artificial tree.

If you ask a chattel slave about slavery, he might speak of brutal punishment and loss of friends and family. If you ask a wage slave about slavery, he might speak of meager compensation and cutthroat competition. If you ask a chattel slave owner about slavery, he might speak of the innate inferiority of the laboring race. If you ask a wage slave employer about slavery, he might speak of the fear of labor organizers and the need for out-sourcing. None of this gets to the essence of slavery because it considers only surface phenomena.

Plato described the essence of slavery as an artificial system of deception. The chattel slave is deceived into fearing punishment. The chattel slave owner is deceived into controlling people. The wage slave is deceived into practicing cutthroat competition. The wage slave employer is deceived into sending his work to a more despotic domain. All of them are stuck in an artificial trap of slavish existence. Where Aristotle debits slavishness to human nature, Plato firmly places the blame on social structures that condition people to think and act in a narrow way.

What does this have to do with politics today? There is no slavery here and now. The problems of coerced and forced labor have all been solved by the miracles of modern science. Do you really believe that or do you see some room for improvement? A recent Time magazine article on labor conditions in India do not agree with that assessment. India is a hotbed of American and European outsourcing.

Links: Plato's famous cave analogy. Nilanjana Bhowmick on labor conditions in India.

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 01:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
So you're saying the majority get to tell minorities what their realities are?

Newsflash: most people in the world don't see US intervention as a good thing. If we're going global, it's the US that are the minority extremist zealots and the rogue state.

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 01:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
What? I'm saying that you can't blithely split the world between western imperialist dogma and minority extremist terrorist narratives. The Muslim world is not some part of a duality split between modernity and whatever.

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 02:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
I'm sorry you took me for creating dichotomies, I wasn't trying to do that (indeed, you're the one who wants to dismiss the lived experience of another group).

What I was trying to say is that there are plenty of people in the world who think they're free until some Imperialist came along to make them more free, and that there are plenty of contemporary examples where those people feel free under the rules of their religion. The US has committed plenty of human rights violations to get those people to stop being the way they are; people who fell plenty OK about the way they are.

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 02:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Oh, I want to dismiss the lived experience of another group?

Oh dear. How terrible of me.

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 03:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
I have about as much of an idea of the point you're trying to make as I did before you started trying to make it...

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 03:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Well in any case I am certainly ashamed of myself.

(no subject)

Date: 22/10/13 03:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
Purple monkey grapefruit.

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