[identity profile] paft.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Democratic Underground, 2002 -- In the eyes of many modern conservatives, the battle between Republicans and Democrats is a battle between the Godly and the Satanic. To call this mindset a rejection of civility is to seriously underestimate the danger it poses. It's a rejection not merely of civility, but of the assumptions about tolerance and equal access that drive our political process….

Modern right-wing rhetoric becomes much less irrational if it's seen as the last gasp of the right's pretense of commitment to political freedom. Rather than self-destructing or imploding, it's quite possible that many conservatives are on the verge of moving from the covert to the overt rejection of this ideal.
(emphasis added)

The first opinion piece aside from discussion forum OPs that I ever posted to the Internet was an essay carried by the then-brand-new website, Democratic Underground back in 2002. My piece was about American liberals and moderates hopefully opining (and let me emphasize -- this was eleven years ago.) that the right was “imploding.” As I observed back then, “This often takes place after some spectacularly insane statement from the right, like a Bush administration spokesman claiming that toxic sludge is good for the environment or a right-wing pundit suggesting that we invade France… Many liberals mistakenly believe that the right wing has an emotional investment in the logic of its own claims and, as a result, is due any day now to simply die of embarrassment.”

And that, I think, has been the core of the problem – a naïve refusal by many in politics and the media to focus on the serious agenda underlying all that ridiculous right-wing rhetoric. For three decades these extremists have been dismissed as irrelevant by moderate liberals and tolerated as “useful” by moderate conservatives. Now they have amassed enough influence to set into motion their dream of what amounts to a political monopoly. Voter suppression and gerrymandering are there to short-circuit the power of demographically liberal voters, and the very ability of a presidential administration to implement a law it has passed has come under attack. Merely enacting important legislation with which the right disagrees is presented as an outrageous act, even an impeachable offense.

And yes, the fact that our president is an African American does give a boost to this attack on political diversity. One of the oldest tricks in the racist book is portraying acts considered normal when done by a white man as criminal when done by a black man. The Republican Party, always willing to exploit racism, is happy to use that assumption as leverage.

I don’t know where this will end. Salon has a piece up saying the Republicans are just likely to get even more right wing. How much further can the GOP go to the right without openly declaring themselves the party of racism and religious dominionism and embracing violence as a tactic?

*

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Date: 10/10/13 20:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
Well mostly I chalk up the current state of the GOP as the result of the Bush Jr Administration basically gutting, destroying and coring out the GOP establishment during its tenure. They either ended careers, fired people, alienated others, or otherwise destroyed people that weren't on board with Cheney or Rumsfeld. So after they left, there was nothing left to maintain party leadership and control. Everyone who would've maintained a party discipline and structure whilst they were in the minority, was gone. So now the GOP is just a headless monster flailing about with no leader, no direction, and at the mercy of the Tea Party vandals who only come to the fore when there is a power vacuum and they capitalize upon it. I mean, the Democrats maintain party order and discipline whether or not they win majorities, its how political parties operate and survive on long time scales. But the GOP destroyed itself from within, thanks to Cheney and Rumsfeld knifing very perceived threat and every viable rival to their bureaucratic power.

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Date: 11/10/13 18:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Fear runs the GOP, that's how they're able to keep people with such wildly different opinions in it; The Moral Majority (who want to police your body) and the Agnostic Libertarians (who want no police at all).

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Date: 10/10/13 20:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
The goal is to create the perfect Christian plutocracy, if that can make sense.

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Date: 10/10/13 20:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
My real question is whether there's a tipping point. Is there a point where they get SO polarized, so Overton shifted, so absurdly crazy, that they end up isolating themselves into obsolescence (at least until new blood is voted in to replace that which left, blood that at least gives lip service to a more moderate agenda?)

I know that for the true disciples (like certain unnamed mouth-frothers on LJ and on Twitter) nothing the GOP can do is too extreme, and anyone who dares to inject common sense is branded as a traitor to the true ideology. But what about the general public, the voters? I know the primary voters are generally more ideological, but I can't believe that the majority are willing to stay on the ride that far. And in the general elections, there has got to be a point where people step back and say: "Whoa. This is NOT my Republican Party."

I hope that's how it is. Do you think it might be, or are we doomed to just see things get more and more insane? Or is it like a pendulum?

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Date: 10/10/13 21:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
But what about the general public, the voters? I know the primary voters are generally more ideological, but I can't believe that the majority are willing to stay on the ride that far.

There was actually something great posted at The Monkey Cage about this earlier this week: All 50 states are shifting rightward ideologically (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2013/10/09/the-conservative-shift-in-public-opinion-has-happened-in-all-50-states/). This meshes well with the Gallup poll so many people love to hate, but this one actually looks at individual positions on the issues, and the findings add up.

On the contrary: the GOP is not going to "isolate themselves into obsolescence." They're going to end up being the party that represents more voters overall, and it's the left that will keep screaming about racism and extremism, missing the entire boat about where this country is actually headed.

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Date: 10/10/13 21:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meus-ovatio.livejournal.com
The GOP isn't doing itself any favors at the moment, regardless of general right/left inclinations according to the same firm: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/10/republicans-are-setting-new-records-unpopularity/70367/

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Date: 10/10/13 21:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soliloquy76.livejournal.com
The mistake in reasoning here is that "conservative" necessarily correlates with GOP, or that "more conservative" means that people are more likely to support the GOP or be more represented by them. There's no denying that the Democratic Party has become more "conservative" on issues in the last 50 years. "More conservative" can mean that people are generally more represented by the Democratic Party of today than they were 50 years ago. Bottom line: there's more than one way to interpret this data.

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Date: 11/10/13 04:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
And up is down, and down is up.

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Date: 11/10/13 19:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
Just skimmed your link. Interesting, and what the book Generations by Strauss & Howe would predict, since the most conservative generation (Gen X) and the most individualistic generation (Boomers) are currently in positions of maximum political power.

Their book focuses on the back and forth generational shifts create. Just as the G.I. and Silent generations were more democratic, expect the Millennials and their successors (now being born, not yet named) to shift things back from a more civic-minded political orientation. Given the added influence of late of the incredibly conservative (or at least corporatist) mainstream media, the backswing has been delayed; but it seems inevitable.

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Date: 11/10/13 15:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Nazi germany existed. There's quite a long ways a party can go in to the danger zone.

THE DANGER ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNUUH!

Edited Date: 11/10/13 15:48 (UTC)

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Date: 11/10/13 19:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
I half expected you to post that "Archer - Dangerzone" video that's been going around.
Edited Date: 11/10/13 19:56 (UTC)

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Date: 10/10/13 21:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
And that, I think, has been the core of the problem – a naïve refusal by many in politics and the media to focus on the serious agenda underlying all that ridiculous right-wing rhetoric.

Here's the problem: the agenda is quite clear. Unfortunately, far too many liberal pundits and partisans, in concert with the media, have decided to label the conservative opposition as racist, as sexist, as unrepresentative and behind the times, which allows them to ignore how mainstream and reasonable the points of view often are. It then gets to the point where opposition to Barack Obama is not based in policy from previously-disengaged voters angry about a health care bill and a stimulus package, but simply from racism - the always-easy go-to for decades. If Hillary Clinton had won, the "Republican War on Women" would have merely been shifted to 2009 as opposed to 2012 with the same results - why bother engaging in discussion about "the serious agenda" when we know our go-to constituencies will lap up ignorant claims of racism like a pig at the trough?

How much further can the GOP go to the right without openly declaring themselves the party of racism and religious dominionism and embracing violence as a tactic?

There's a ways left to go in order to move rightward. The NSA issues of the summer have awoken the libertarian streak that the Tea Party movement stirred up. But, of course, libertarianism is just about getting rich white males in power, right? I'm sure that messaging will continue to work, allowing those opposed to ignore "the serious agenda" once more.

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Date: 10/10/13 21:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
Plus there is that pesky First Amendment on unpopular speech and democratically structured elections that real citizens elected real politicians to represent their narrow view. The Tea Party Coalition, for better or worse, currently has the bully pulpit. As the OP opined, these are not the GOP we all have grown to question.

Of course, I am as anti-incumbent as they come; throw out the lot of 'em!

However, jeff you have to admit the gaffs coming from the right are fair game for the mean ol' media, and not just made up stories. Both sides say stupid things be some say more stupid things than others.

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Date: 10/10/13 21:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Putting aside these diversions of racism and misogyny, the GOP's political actions are not polling well. Rightward shift or not, conservative trust in the GOP brand is diminishing. If they don't get rid of their Tea Party tumor soon, all they'll be associated with is the TP's extremism rather than the mainstream views you claim they share with the general public.

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Date: 10/10/13 21:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
Come the 17th it doesn't matter though right? We're going to be heading headfirst into failed state territory.

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Date: 12/10/13 15:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
nah, i think they're gonna go for the first down and repeat the process in november

(i just made a football reference and i think it's fitting, hoorah for sports knowledge? ...no, not really)

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Date: 12/10/13 04:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
So just to be perfectly clear.

You're basing your model of what conservatives think on articles from Salon and Democrat Underground. Not National Review or The Wall Street Journal's editorial page.

That explains a lot.

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Date: 12/10/13 19:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
I'm curious why you mis-read "Democratic Underground". You realize that resorting to a stupid slur undermines any credibility you might have, don't you?

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Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods


MONTHLY TOPIC:

Failed States

DAILY QUOTE:
"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)
"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)
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June 2025

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