[identity profile] nairiporter.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/egypt-needs-our-help-now-more-than-ever/2013/07/16/31d46a4a-ed6e-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html

This article written by former national security advisor Brent Scowcroft and former National Security Council member Eric D.K. Melby makes an eloquent case for the US focusing its aid to Egypt and its efforts in regards to the situation in the region on helping the biggest Arab country restore economic and political stability. The authors argue that such a goal is in the best interests of the US, regardless of the whole debate about whether the coup should be called a coup. Here are the excerpts that I find central to the argument:

"Debating what label to put on the recent events deters from the truly important task: developing a strategy to support the restoration of Egypt’s economic and political stability. President Obama’s call for a reassessment of U.S. aid should focus primarily on how we can help Egypt, rather than on whether we should help".
...
"Egypt remains the most important country in the Arab world because of its history, its population, its economy and its example. Helping it achieve its goals at this critical juncture clearly is in America’s interest and that of the international community. The United States is in a unique position — by virtue of its international influence and time-tested relationship with Egypt — to convene the relevant parties and to stimulate action. It also has a unique responsibility to do so".

I think from a Realpolitik standpoint, the stance expressed in this article makes a much stronger case than all those emotional appeals about encouraging freedom and democracy in Egypt (before the coup) and the calls for punishing the military for their undemocratic actions by cutting aid after the event. It is true that the US legislation stipulates that if an event in a country is called a coup, then technically US aid has to be stopped to that country.

The problem with these appeals to upholding the principles of democracy that America regularly claims to be "standing for", no matter the geopolitical cost and the long-term implications from such an action, is that they make the assumption that Egypt had already achieved democracy before the latest events, whereas it was nowhere near that point. And not only because democracy is a process, not an event.

In fact, what happened in Egypt after the Tahrir revolution was that there was an election, a president was elected, but then he retreated from the promised path to democracy, he refused to respect the separation of powers, he changed the Constitution to suit his interests by unilaterally overriding the country's high court. In the meantime, he put Egypt on a path to Islamization, something that ran counter to that nation's long-time tradition of a largely moderate and secular state (especially when compared to other countries in the region).

Regardless of all the semantic pretzels being made around the name of the event (and the painful and pathetic wriggling of White House press secretary Jay Carney as he danced around the term 'coup' without actually ever using it), the truth is that the US interest in the region is to play a constructive role and try to help Egypt through this difficult transition period.

But don't get me wrong. "Helping" Egypt does not necessarily constitute sending arms to its military. Of course just throwing money at a problem has never been a constructive approach - it has to be spent wisely and smartly, and where it would make a difference (hope springs eternal, doesn't it). But I guess the point I and the two authors are trying to make is, now is the time to show some wisdom and strength of will by resisting the temptation to surrender to emotional appeals that would jeopardize the US long-term interests, which are in fact much more compelling and important than, say, the situation in Syria.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 14/8/13 21:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Except for humanitarian aid maybe, but granted, that's not directly related to the encouragement of democracy.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 14/8/13 22:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
I thought El Baradei had been America's darling for quite a while.
(deleted comment)

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 03:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
go home, Gallivan, you're drunk! :P

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 16:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
That brings to mind the "humanitarian aid" that the US provided to the Afghan Mujaheddin in the '80s. The Taliban wound up using a significant portion of that assistance to enforce their hold over the Afghan countryside.

(no subject)

Date: 23/8/13 04:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
wait, you mean foodstuffs can be used as a weapon?

(no subject)

Date: 26/8/13 15:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
They did not only receive foodstuffs. Toyota land cruisers were in the package as well. There were a number of medical workers who questioned the legitimacy of providing medical assistance to people who were committed to violently wiping the Soviets off of the Afghan map.

(no subject)

Date: 14/8/13 22:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
Every time we give 'help' to other countries, it leads to us being blamed for everything that goes wrong.

(no subject)

Date: 14/8/13 22:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] devil-ad-vocate.livejournal.com
Possibly, except for the French - who don't care for us very much.

(no subject)

Date: 25/8/13 21:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foolsguinea.livejournal.com
Considering that an independent republic in North America did a lot to prevent the re-establishment of New France, and led to much French territory becoming English-speaking in the long term, I think French dislike of the Yanks is remarkably mild.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 16:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I'll bet they do not appreciate people rubbing their noses in it, though.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 01:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
It is better that the Egyptians blame the US than each other, and we are pretty uniquely qualified to be the bad guys here, so I don't really see the problem.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 03:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
I think it may all be moot now that the military has essentially declared war on the Brotherhood.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 09:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
Neither. We should be trying to prevent another Syria. The US does have a bit of influence with the Egyptian military, we should be using that to urge restraint.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 10:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
I don't know that it should take either.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 13:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
True. After the massacre that the military performed on the Morsi supporters, it seems the dialogue in Egypt is practically dead and buried.

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 08:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Let's not forget the sense of national pride that permeates the Egyptian society, and stems from its ancient history. Any excessive foreign interference is being met with suspicion or outright hostility, depending on which segment of the Egyptian society you ask. Especially Western interference. The issue is largely a domestic one, and all the US could do is maintain its declared stance about democracy and human rights without actively meddling into Egypt's affairs. The Egyptians are not toddlers, they've shown throughout their history that they can handle their problems even if that might require a lot of suffering.

On the other hand, if military aid is abruptly stopped, or even drastically scaled down, that would inevitably alienate the Egyptian military and it would achieve two negative results: one, it'd make them weaker, feel more threatened, and resort to even more escalation; and two, it'd essentially torpedo the US influence in the region.

Abrupt moves in geopolitics are detrimental.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 06:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
at this point, what influence do we really have?

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 07:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Other than being the one factor that sustains their most powerful institution (the military)?

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 16:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
and what tangible influence has that given us in recent years?

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 18:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
At the moment? Not very big (http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/egypt-shows-us-influence-in-middle-east-in-decline-say-expert).

Until very recently? It's not that the US didn't have some levers of influence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Military_cooperation) in Egypt as a strategic (mostly military) ally.

And let's not forget who's pulling the strings in Egypt right now.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 18:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
I'm not convinced that our military aid is really the most effective means of gaining influence in Egypt (and the region).

It may well be that our influence—<a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2013/08/president_obama_should_end_aid_to_egypt_the_country_s_generals_act_on_their.single.html>or lack thereof—</a>will be the same, regardless of whether we keep aiding the Egyptian military. If it’s unclear what course of action will best serve U.S. interests, maybe that leaves a clear path to pursue U.S. values instead.</I>

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 18:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
I haven't said that it's the most effective.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 18:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
my link got jacked up, but it presents a pretty good argument for moving past this type of diplomacy.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2013/08/president_obama_should_end_aid_to_egypt_the_country_s_generals_act_on_their.single.html

(no subject)

Date: 15/8/13 16:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
American administrations have a long history of sidestepping legal restrictions. The Reagan administration was barred from aiding the "freedom fighters" in Central America, but they went ahead and did it anyway. This is not the first coup, nor will it be the last, to receive American aid and comfort. The law against funding any military that commits a coup is only window dressing to make the US look civil.

BTW, the events in Egypt over the past few years resemble the events of the early fifth century when various sects in Alexandria were pitted against one another in violent street brawls.

(no subject)

Date: 16/8/13 05:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 13:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
the truth is that the US interest in the region is to play a constructive role and try to help Egypt through this difficult transition period.

Yes and that's what it's all about. What's in the US interest. If it was in U.S. interests to promote another Pinochet in Egypt instead, they would do that.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 18:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
I'm not a fan of Reapolitik myself, but sometimes that's just how it is.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 18:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
and I beg to differ that the US never does anything out of sheet moral motivations. Aid to Africa being one example.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 21:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vehemencet-t.livejournal.com
Though I haven't looked for specific information, I would be hard pressed to believe that U.S. aid to Africa has no realpolitik motivations at all and is *just* from a sense of moral duty.

If nothing else, it might just be guilt for fucking the place over so bad during the international slave trade I suppose.

(no subject)

Date: 18/8/13 22:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-07-26/opinions/35487798_1_african-countries-pepfar-antiretroviral-treatment

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/13 13:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
my link speaks for itself. try reading it. let me know if you have any questions.

(no subject)

Date: 20/8/13 03:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
the fundamental disagreement is with your suggestion that the US never acts out of goodwill. this is just a caricature, and does not reflect the nuance of reality.

does the US pursue policies that are in its own national interest? of course we do, just like all other nations. are we ultimately better served when we pursue policies that benefit more than one party? absolutely.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/13 05:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Strategically and geopolitically? Damn sure they don't. It wouldn't make any sense.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/13 13:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whoasksfinds.livejournal.com
not every action is driven by geopolitics.

(no subject)

Date: 19/8/13 14:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Okay, fair enough.

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods

DAILY QUOTE:
"The NATO charter clearly says that any attack on a NATO member shall be treated, by all members, as an attack against all. So that means that, if we attack Greenland, we'll be obligated to go to war against ... ourselves! Gee, that's scary. You really don't want to go to war with the United States. They're insane!"

March 2026

M T W T F S S
       1
2345 678
910 1112 1314 15
1617 1819 202122
2324 2526 272829
3031