[identity profile] uglich-jj.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
US President George Bush Sr. shaking hands with Mr.Yaroslav Stetsko, Ukranian emigrant and leader of OUN - Organisation of Ukranian nationalsts.





1941. Ukraine.  Mr.Stetsko (left) greeting Nazi occupants of his country.



And not only greeting but taking part in Nazi atrocities.  Especially in Nazi pogrom in the city of Lvov (Lviv) at June, 30 - July, 2 1941 when OUN "militia" and SS killed at least 2000 local Jews. Mr.Stetsko was leader of OUN in this city at the moment. After WW2 OUN as a right-wing anti-Soveit and anti-Communist organisation was a US ally in a Cold war. No legal persecution for the war crimes, of course. No word about the past. Only handshakes.

The Realpolitik? - OK. Now lets see some pictures of Lvov pogrom of 1941 which Mr.Stetsko is responsable for.

http://oun-b.livejournal.com/14552.html

Warning! The scenes of violence!!!

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 02:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I'm not sure how much the OUN can be put on Ukrainians in general. The movement in question was indisputably an auxiliary in some of the most vicious aspects of the Holocaust. But at the time Lwow was still a Polish territory, not far removed in terms of time from a period where it was the center of Habsburg Galicia. It is true that these people committed war crimes and that the USA treated them as good people because they were anti-Communist. Yet in a way they're not so far removed from Hamas or the PLO insofar as their relationship to Ukrainian nationalism on the whole is concerned. This, unfortunately, is a side of the past that tends to be forgotten in a reflexive desire to acknowledge the evils of the Soviet Union. So it's something that should be discussed more, but there is a tremendous amount of nuance here.

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 21:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Not always, actually, if we want to get into that. Trust me, the history of nationalism is not the kind of discussion you want if you want an OP based on black and white thinking to stand. You did have Little Russian peasants, yes, but their landlords were Polish, and there's that Jewish population that got massacred as well.

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 02:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com
So...did I dream about this post and commenting on it?

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 02:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
Bush-Hitler. It must be circa 2003.

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 03:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
This was BusHitler Sr... so it's around 1992.

What do you think Ross Perot would think about this?

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From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 03:29 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 03:32 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/6/13 06:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
Its previous version must have been removed because of the graphic images in it. This one at least contains a link and a disclaimer, although it still looks like a photo dump.

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 06:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Is there a point you were trying to make, or you just wanted to share some pictures with the audience? So far your post doesn't make much sense.

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 08:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Yeah, well. Presidents have been known for meeting bad guys, or guys they, at least in words, are not supposed to be supporting. Like all those hugs and kisses (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/jaguar1024/0115_george_bush_getty.jpg) between GWB and the Saudi royal family. Or that pic of Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YE8Ti_TIZIQ/UZuYnIpQYdI/AAAAAAAAQ1I/XQ3-RAIldoM/s320/buddies.jpg) in his early years when he was still "our buddy". Or even the recent McCain (http://news.yahoo.com/u-senator-mccain-pictured-syrian-rebel-kidnapper-paper-172141362.html) story, where he claimed we could easily identify which Syrian rebels are "good guys" and which are terrorists, but then he went to the Middle East and took photos with some guys who had a string of kidnappings on their record. So yeah. Realpolitik.

The post is about where is the limits of Realpolitik,

Then why didn't you say that in the post itself? I didn't know what the post was about until I had to ask you. It's essentially, "Here are some scandalous pics. Look at them. OK, bye".

What's your opinion on the very subject you're presenting for discussion? You do know that you're supposed to state some opinion (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/261191.html) there, right?

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 09:46 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 19:34 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/6/13 11:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
Very well. In the spirit of this post, here's my "opinion".

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The photos say it all, you know. Whatever it is that they're saying.
Edited Date: 7/6/13 11:25 (UTC)

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From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 11:33 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 18:41 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 13:53 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 15:48 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/6/13 15:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
One is not a photograph

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 11:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
My previous question repeated:

What is the context of the photograph of HW Bush and Stetsko?

Bush became president in 1989. Stetsko died in 1986.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 13:38 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 14:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com
This is off-topic from this post, but...

Considering what has been going on and coming out the last few days, and also considering it is ethics in politics month...

It sure is quiet here.

I think the fact that there is no post pertaining to a certain topic says more than any post ever could.

Funny, sad, pancakes...

(no subject)

Date: 7/6/13 16:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
I was thinking of posting on the topic, but something tells me you're going to beat me to it. Unless you've just been complaining without planning to do anything about it. (wink, wink)

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 16:17 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 16:24 (UTC) - Expand

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(no subject)

Date: 8/6/13 07:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
On the other hand, consider this.

Last month's topic was "social justice". It took about a week for that topic to sink in, and for the first post on that topic to appear here. It was followed by several other posts on that topic.

Hell, it took 8 days for "stupid talking points debunked" to get its first post in April. The same way it took this month's topic 7 days to get its first post (http://talk-politics.livejournal.com/1719806.html).

Does all of that also say more about those other topics than any post ever could, or aren't you, perhaps, reading a bit too much into it? ;-)

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com - Date: 8/6/13 21:10 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com - Date: 8/6/13 21:18 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/6/13 18:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
Now let me see if I get this straight. You

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From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 23:58 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/6/13 20:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com
Ah! Rick Day! What a pleasant surprise!

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From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com - Date: 7/6/13 23:59 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com - Date: 9/6/13 01:53 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com - Date: 9/6/13 02:05 (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com - Date: 9/6/13 04:31 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 7/6/13 20:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
what is going on here

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