[identity profile] stewstewstewdio.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics

Gunshot

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. - Barry Goldwater

I had been searching for this for, what seems like, years. When gun debates come up, there is always a reference to self defense. I have Googled, Yahoo!ed and Binged and have never been able to see what a clear cut gun defense looked like until I ran across this story in the Washington Post.

I have always given gun rights advocates the benefit of the doubt and thought that the main stream media was unfairly shying away from gun defense cases because of some code of honor, political leanings or liability reasons. When I read this article, I was astonished at some of the things I discovered from it, such as:


  1. This was not a personal assault on the street, but a home invasion that required the victim to retrieve a gun from a safe and hide with her children in an area of this house that she hoped would be out of harm's way. There was no concealed carry involved.

  2. The victim has remained very private about the experience. No talk shows, no interviews, no publicity at all. The only statements made were from the police reports.

  3. All of the boasting has come from outside sources such as the NRA, Fox News and talking head radio shows.

  4. It has become apparent that crime will probably be mitigated and reduced in that neighborhood. Not because everybody is packing firearms, but because crime mitigation procedures such as Neighborhood Watches, a larger police force and security measures are being implemented.

  5. The biggest resulting braggadocio in the neighborhood has been the Walton County Sheriff, Joe Chapman, who was reduced to name calling in court calling the perpetrator a “dirt bag”.

  6. The perpetrator was shot 5 times in the chest and face with a .38 caliber handgun and still was able to escape in his car until he crashed a few blocks later. He survived, was convicted and sent to prison.

  7. The perpetrator was a resident of the community where he committed the crime.

  8. The perpetrator’s wife now possesses a gun to protect herself in what has become an arms race.

A news item like this would be in the best interest of the news media, the gun lobby and the NRA to promote this kind of account. Yet, things like this never seem to make it into any kind of press. Instead, mass shooting tragedies are arrogantly passed off as acceptable losses and any attempts to reduce gun violence are written off as bothersome irritation. It has become dangerously obvious that concern for the security of gun activists' armaments far exceeds their concern for the security of the society in which they live.

The picture that was painted by this incident didn’t follow the Hollywood script types of stories that gun activists like to paint. It is becoming more apparent that the scenarios that gun activists portray are, at best, anecdotal and incredibly rare and the reality invokes images of trauma rather than heroism.

This narrative goes contrary to concealed carry rationalizations. This is a clear cut case of domain protection, and not personal assault. This story reinforces my belief that aside from military or law enforcement professionals, those who arm themselves in public, and mentally and emotionally prepare themselves to take a life suffer from paranoid delusional fantasies. I think it’s worth noting that in the cases of military or law enforcement, their carry is not concealed.

My observations are further supported by the exceedingly zealous views of rabid gun activists who believe that the solution to every conflict is to shoot their way out of it. I am convinced that ordinary citizens that insist on concealed carry for protection are directly parallel to 40 year old male virgins that carry condoms. They will probably never use them, but they entertain a fantasy that their moment can come at any time.

It would seem that the NRA would be better served by representing the vast majority of gun owners who enjoy ownership for hunting, target shooting and domain protection. Instead, they feast on the fringe implementation of paranoid fantasies to justify their cause. The American Civil War is over. It's time we quit treating our nation like a war zone.

(no subject)

Date: 30/5/13 18:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
What you are implying is that the criminal should be given the benefit of the doubt essentially forcing the victims, the woman and the children, to assume the risks to their safety for the benefit of the criminal. Why you think anyone is due a warning before being shot after breaking into a home is a bit baffling. Anyone attempting a home invasion realizes that being shot is a risk of breaking into someones home.

(no subject)

Date: 30/5/13 18:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
There is no need to assume risk. Burglars break into houses to steal things, not to hurt people. The guy probably assumed nobody was home because nobody answered the door when he rang the bell.

(no subject)

Date: 30/5/13 18:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
That is called the benefit of the doubt.

(no subject)

Date: 30/5/13 23:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Which is why he followed them to the crawlspace in the attic?

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 15:32 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Is that what happened? It was not clear to me whether he sought them out in their hiding place or whether he discovered them there during his search of the house. Also, I was not under the impression that the crawlspace was in the attic.

(no subject)

Date: 31/5/13 01:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] korean-guy-01.livejournal.com
Using your logic system, how do you ID someone who has broken into your house & has yet to do any other action? Do you allow them to pick up an item and walk out the door? Do you wait for them to commit ______ before IDing them as ______? Explain.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 15:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Using my logic system, the man would never have broken into the house because he would have known someone was home after the door was answered when he rang the bell.

(no subject)

Date: 31/5/13 02:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
People are killed all the time during burglaries.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 15:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I do not know what the statistics are, but I would be willing to bet money that fewer people are killed during burglaries than are not.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 18:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
Would you be willing to bet your life that a person who broke into your home wouldn't harm you if you were found hiding?

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 18:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
If someone broke into my place, they would find me hiding.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 18:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
You didn't answer the question.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 18:45 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
My bad. I meant to say that they would not find me hiding.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 19:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
Still didn't answer the question.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 19:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
The question is moot because the scenario would not happen.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 19:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
Well, it can happen to everyone else who doesn't have powers of invisibility. So why don't you pretend like you are a normal human being and answer the question?

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 19:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I am a normal human being. It is not magic powers of invisibility that would keep me out of the closet. It is a normal desire to not cower in the presence of a coward.

(no subject)

Date: 3/6/13 19:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com
It is a normal desire to not cower in the presence of a coward.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com - Date: 3/6/13 19:29 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com - Date: 3/6/13 19:30 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com - Date: 3/6/13 19:36 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com - Date: 3/6/13 20:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com - Date: 3/6/13 23:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] cheezyfish.livejournal.com - Date: 4/6/13 01:16 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 4/6/13 03:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
That is comforting to those who are not killed. It is not comforting to those who are killed, or assaulted, or robbed.

(no subject)

Date: 4/6/13 15:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I would not go that far. Those who were killed could not possibly be comforted since they are dead. Those who have been assaulted or robbed can take comfort in the fact that they survived.

(no subject)

Date: 5/6/13 02:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
They would have even more comfort if they hadn't been assaulted or robbed.

(no subject)

Date: 5/6/13 15:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
And they might have less comfort if they had to live with the knowledge that they killed or severely maimed someone.

(no subject)

Date: 5/6/13 23:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
Clearly, this is choice best left to the individual.

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