Should The West automatically give a political asylum to a Russian street protester?

[panchul.livejournal.com]

Gentlemen: I believe there is a case of a serious disconnect and I need your help to clarify the situation.

What happended: Alexander Dolmatov, a member of a Russian opposition party The Other Russia (effectively a renamed National Bolshevik Party) decided to take part in a street meeting that led him to a fight with a Russian police: Dolmatov is on the right:



As a result, he got in trouble with a Russian state and decided to flight to Netherlands, where he applied for political refugee status:





Dolmatov was denied the refugee status because Dutch decided that the only danger he is facing in Russia is 500 rubles fine (about $20). As a result, Dolmatov commited suicide.

It is also important to know that Dolmatov was working in a Russian company that designed tactical missiles and had a government security clearance (minimal level - so he did not work on anything secret).

Now: a Russian journalist Oleg Kashin published an article in The New York Times implying that the West has a moral obligation "to keep doors open" to "thousands" of Russian political activists who may choose to flee Russia when they feel they can be prosecuted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/opinion/a-cold-shoulder-for-russian-dissidents.html

His death is a tragedy to those who knew him and also to thousands of anti-Putin protesters who, fearing persecution, have hoped that the West would offer them a haven.

During the cold war, Western public opinion was resolutely on the side of harboring persecuted Soviet dissidents. But as the European Union has drawn closer to Russia economically, interest in Russian human rights has waned, except when developments are so outrageous — like the assassination of the journalist Anna Politkovskaya in 2006 — that they cannot be ignored. If the West’s doors remain closed, more Russian dissidents will become victims of the state — or die by their own hands.

I personally think that Oleg Kashin and other Russians like him have a mistaken assumption about how the West perceives these "fighters for the democracy" in Russia. Kashin probably think that Dolmatov-type political activists are a kind of proxy fighters of the West in its mission to democratise Russia. As a result they expect the West to protect these activists from any misfortune. I also may be mistaken, so I decided to create a poll:

[Poll #1892259]

Comments

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

I say we'll take him in, but you have to agree to take Alex Jones first.

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

I'd go for Sasha Grey.
Or Frau Radulova, at the very least.

[imfromjasenevo.livejournal.com]

I think you accidentally missed the facts
A. Police (anti-extremist department) came to his apartment with a search warrant
B. FSB called him in for questioning.
C. He claimed that he was threatened there.

[panchul.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I believe the information about the search warrant in included in NY Times article

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/opinion/a-cold-shoulder-for-russian-dissidents.html

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

You could also append his last note to the family he wrote before committing suicide.

[imfromjasenevo.livejournal.com]

as wel as
D. In Russia, there are some scientists who were accused of espionage
and who were without access to any state secrets
and all of them spent more than 10 years in prison

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

NazBols? So he's one of these guys?

[panchul.livejournal.com]

This was a very picturesque party until it was banned by evil Putin's regime:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevik_Party





The founder of this party - Eduard Limonov is a well-known writer who lived for several years in the United States - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Limonov

[comeonyouspurs.livejournal.com]

If only the likes of Dzerzhinsky were still around to take care of pricks like Limonov...

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Are you Russian security? You have that wholesome look of deep cover agents sent into America to undermine our great nation.

/maybe I've been watching too many previews of The Americans

[panchul.livejournal.com]

No, I am not a Russian security. I am an engineer in the area of Electronic Design Automation (EDA).

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Good to know - I used to work in electronics as well.

In general I don't think street protesters earn special protection - other countries have their own problems to attend to.

[imfromjasenevo.livejournal.com]

i'm sure that even he is not member of 50 cent party.
there is a plenty of russian guys sucking Putin's dick for free

[panchul.livejournal.com]

I think you are imagining something. I am not discussing Putin in my post.

This post is about a misperception of some Russian folks. Please re-read what I wrote:

I personally think that Oleg Kashin and other Russians like him have a mistaken assumption about how the West perceives these "fighters for the democracy" in Russia. Kashin probably think that Dolmatov-type political activists are a kind of proxy fighters of the West in its mission to democratise Russia. As a result they expect the West to protect these activists from any misfortune. I also may be mistaken, so I decided to create a poll:

Do you see any mention of Putin in my text?

[imfromjasenevo.livejournal.com]

"When we say Lenin - we mean Party, when we say Party - we mean Lenin!"
Actually, you have distorted the context of Dolmatov's history

[panchul.livejournal.com]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Why do you think I distorted the context of Dolmatov's story?

I presented the elements I considered essential and included a link to Kashin's article.

I don't think the immigration office in Netherlands has means to accurately distinguish between the real and exaggerated threats based on Dolmatov's words.

If you wish, you can present your version of the story and I will insert it into my post.

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

It seems to me, the begining of this article is not quite correct. The post might be read by not only men but women as well. So it would be better to start with the words "gentlemen & gentlewomen".

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Oh, no worries. We've gotten used to being ignored. ;P

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

Perhaps, Mr. Panchul doesn't suspect, that some ladies are able to distinguish English letters.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

I don't know, but there's something else that I'm curious about.

How come, whenever a Russian guy writes a post here on some Russian subject, a whole bunch of Russian LJ-ers who've never previously appeared around here, suddenly pop out of nowhere?

Do you have a theory about this?

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

Could the Russian ownership be the answer?

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

OK, but how exactly does it work? Does someone search through the entire LJ and then alert Russian users when Russia is being mentioned somewhere, or is there some kind of LJ application that automatically notifies them?

[comeonyouspurs.livejournal.com]

Friends Page (probably).

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Not very likely, given the enormous number of posts that must be coming across their friends pages on a daily basis, yet never to result in their involvement - but whatever. I still find it curious though.

[papasha-mueller.livejournal.com]

You never know, oh those Russians...
I, for example, have a red emergency flashlight mounted above my monitor.

:) He's on my friend list.

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

Well, my theory is as follows. As for me, my goal is moderate pure and honest. I use to read some English post and
try to respond it, collecting several words in a short sentence,just for the purpose of English practice.My idea
concerning this very post is that this article is a part of Russian authorities propaganda campaign aiming to creat
negative attitude towards Russian opposition among western democratic public.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

I think there's nothing to worry about, then. The Russian opposition is very loved in the West. And anything related to Putin is automatically disliked. Especially something that at least remotely smells of pro-Putin propaganda.

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

As far as I can see, those writers don't bother of the result. They publish their posts, which are read by three and a half people, and then report to their bosses that the great work was done and it's high time to receive their bonuses.

[ddstory.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the most wide-spread accusation. Whenever a Russian writes something, there'd be at least two other Russians to ask them, "But how much did they pay you to write this?" It happens every time.

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

Those Russian, you have happened to meet in the space of internet, seem to be fond of counting money in each other's pockets.

[panchul.livejournal.com]

*** My idea concerning this very post is that this article is a part of Russian authorities propaganda campaign aiming to creat
negative attitude towards Russian opposition among western democratic public.***

Are you implying that any opinion different from your own is likely to be a "Russian authorities propaganda campaign aiming to create negative attitude towards Russian opposition among western democratic public" ?

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't want to offend you. If my opinion so hurts you I'm ready to change it to any convenient for you. But are you implying that any opinion different from your own is likely to have no right to exist?

[panchul.livejournal.com]

You came to my post and instead of stating your opinion about the topic, you started to share your unfounded opinion about my person, implying that my post is a paid Kremlin propaganda. This is not a proper way to discuss politics.

Besides, your theory about me is pure nonsense. I am a US citizen with a long track record in the US electronic industry. My name appeared in Electronic Engineering Times and in Los Angeles Times. I don't have any financial need or a motivation to getting paid for posting anything on the net.

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

The place in the picture looks familiar. Is that... Triumfalnaya Pl.?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Is the guy with the big hat (with the red band) in the photograph in the military or he is a police officer too ?

[abomvubuso.livejournal.com]

He's a cop, but with an officer rank.

[wbz09.livejournal.com]

He is a policeman. His big hat is called "peaked cap".

[foolsguinea.livejournal.com]

selected: "This guy was working on a missile factory. The Dutch should investigate him before letting him in"

I'd investigate him, sure, but then I'd probably let him move to my country, which would probably look like:
"At least he should get a Green Card, basic food and shelter, medical insurance, food stamps"

I'm not big on closed borders in general.