[identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
The other day a bonsai sakura plant showed up in the lobby of the building where I live. It brought back memories of my time in public elementary school music class singing the Japanese ode to the sakura tree. I asked a young woman who works for the property management company if she had music classes in her elementary school experience. It did not surprise me when she answered in the negative.

This led to a discussion with students about the role and value of music classes in elementary education. One of the students had other things on her mind. She remarked that the practice of bonsai cultivation reminds her of fundamentalist religion. It deliberately stunts the growth of its practitioners. Bringing the topic back to education, I asked if the same could be said about elementary education without the cultural enrichment of music classes. Those who have not been through the process feel somehow deprived of a higher quality educational experience. Exposure to music from different cultures at a young age can encourage further development in cultural studies. Learning a variety of musical patterns could ease the way into learning a variety of languages.

A fundamentalist music program would not dare venture into such diversity. It would strictly limit its repertoire to music that promotes servility and obedience to authority. Jazz, Blues, and Hip Hop would be strictly placed beyond the pale. The Rock genre would be allowed only in its softer form promoting adoration for the despot in the sky. Doing the twist would not be in the curriculum.

It has been said that heavenly governance is like a tiny seed that grows into a tree sheltering a variety of creatures. Hellish governance could be said to be the bonsai gardener who prevents the tree from growing beyond the height of a child's knee, sheltering only a race of rats. Reading the Bible is mandatory. Understanding what it says is verboten.

What do you think about the tendency for public education to emphasize the mechanics of arithmetic and grammar while falling short in the development of broader skills?

Link: School children singing "Sakura". MENC's list of 42 songs every American should know (including "Sakura"). Kenneth McGuire on the MENC list of 42 songs.

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Date: 15/1/13 16:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
This is why there is no good music in Black churches.

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Date: 15/1/13 16:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peamasii.livejournal.com
In the Transylvanian town of Brasov, there is a "Black Church", named so because in 1689 it was burned down and then subsequently rebuilt. They have very good music there!

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Date: 15/1/13 19:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
Boom!.

Debate over.

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Date: 16/1/13 04:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Reverend Cleophus James at the Triple Rock has a great gospel choir in Chicago's south side! Jake and Elwood saw the light because of it!

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Date: 16/1/13 02:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
"AFLAC! AFLAAAAC! AF! LAC!"

"ugh..."

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Date: 15/1/13 16:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
What do you think about the tendency for public education to emphasize the mechanics of arithmetic and grammar while falling short in the development of broader skills?

Because we're from the British tradition, where if you don't learn how to make money from the thing, its pointless. So music is considered utterly frivolous in our education system . Which is completely antithetical to how Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Austria, and other European countries see music as part of their heritage. I keep bringing up the El Sistema program as a great template of achieving social change via music education. The program is now active in several cities in the United States (http://elsistemausa.org/), like in east LA, Birmingham Alabama, Philadelphia, Chicago, Brooklyn, Boston, Virginia Beach, Las Vegas.



Edited Date: 15/1/13 16:38 (UTC)

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Date: 15/1/13 16:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
this may be the most awesome thing I've ever gotten from a Sophia post ever.

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Date: 15/1/13 18:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
In the UK utilitarian schooling was for those that couldn't afford to pay for private education. And even then, after the war until Thatcher's revolution, state-educated primary schools had strong musical tuition.

I attended a state primary school between '65 until '71. Not only did we, as 7 year olds, have a school orchestra (with which I ended up performing at the Albert Hall) they also lent out instruments to the less well-off pupils, which they could take home and practice upon. Thanks to this education, which stemmed from the ideas of the Labour government of Attlee, I got a partial musical scholarship to my private secondary school.

I wonder which "tradition" you speak of. The "British tradition" of schooling before the C19th was private and Classically orientated: Latin, Greek, Scripture, and some Music in the form of Choral singing. No Sciences, little Mathematics beyond arithmetic, and for most folk as basic as their parents or sponsors saw need. But Music has always played a huge part in British culture. Before radio and television, every home in England that could afford it had a piano, as you will know if you have any appreciation of British social history, or have read your Austen.

When mandated basic education for all was introduced, in 1880, for 5 to 10 year olds, it was bound to be as described: basic. Humanities, Classics, Music, and the nascent Sciences were luxuries afforded by the rich. For a few years after WWII and until Thatcher that changed: but we're now back to where we started. Excepting, I must add, that I am a currently a music teacher in a Primary School, and thanks to various charities, and many involved parents, music tuition, including "difficult" classical music, is available on a first-come-first-served basis to each pupil who is interested and whose parents can afford it. And there are some who for reasons of parental poverty, have their music lesson fees defrayed.

Also, in the UK, there is one taxpayer funded specialist music school in London. Most music schools are private, and therefore expensive: the BRIT School is free for those fortunate enough to attend.

But I will say that if you reckon that in this modern era folk are prepared to subsidise such luxurious educational standards out of their taxes, and roll out a programme like El Sistema nationwide, then America must be a very different place to the one I have been viewing from this side of the pond, and the one that the UK is desperately trying to emulate in a rush to the lowest cost option, despite the fact that El Sistema has made inroads into classical music teaching and appreciation in the UK.

Now, Soviet Russia had a damn fine music education system if you like results. But woe betide the young pupil who didn't practice hard enough.

If education is about raising cultural awareness, well…you get what you pay for. Eton College has three or four orchestras, and it isn't as if music is the core of its curriculum. Surprise that, isn't it?

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Date: 16/1/13 02:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
and expression of disgust, confusion, fear, and awe all in one!

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Date: 15/1/13 18:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notmrgarrison.livejournal.com


I now know how to say "vegetable", "sisters", "tomato", and to some degree "asapagus" in Japanese.

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Date: 16/1/13 01:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jerseycajun.livejournal.com
I like cheese.

And that's all there is to say on the subject.

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Date: 16/1/13 07:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nairiporter.livejournal.com
Just don't tell me you mean that smelly cheese with the mould... :-S

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Date: 16/1/13 02:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimpala.livejournal.com
I do agree that art and music classes need to be taught, or at least exposed so that students have an opportunity to discover potential talents they not be able to outside the school environment.

Math is important too and is becoming increasingly important for artists looking to make a career out of what they do.

Because if you are going to render unto Caesar you need to get familiar with the XYZ axis and how to calculate Caesar's joints and program Caesar's rig and stuff like that. Also you probably should know how to translate Roman numerals.
Edited Date: 16/1/13 02:07 (UTC)

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Date: 16/1/13 04:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jerseycajun.livejournal.com
Screw rigging. That's what buying plug-ins are for :) Thank Heavens there are decent plug ins that will rig and skin well enough to keep you from having to tweak too much.

Love modeling and even enjoy texture mapping and lighting. But rigging and skinning...

Do you work in animation software?

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Date: 16/1/13 04:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harry-beast.livejournal.com
"The pursuit of broader skills" at times seems like a code word for "don't teach anything that requires effort and focus, either by the student or by the teacher". And yet without mastering basic skills, i.e. the mechanics, learning is severely limited. This is true of mathematics, it is true of languages and it is certainly true of music.
Discipline, commitment and structure in a learning environment does not stunt; rather, it challenges, it strengthens and for those willing to make the effort, it provides achievement far beyond what is usually possible in a free form environment.

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