[identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
French court throws out Hollande's tax on rich

That piece of news aside for a while, I'd say Francois Hollande is a true champ! No other French president has ever managed to lose his popularity so quickly. The disappointment from his rule is growing like an avalanche, and the reforms that he promised are nowhere in sight.

At the turn of the new year, the French president tried to do a face-lift to his image by presenting his Algerian visit as "a historic act". The bad news is that since the socialists took the presidency earlier this year there haven't been any tangible results. So he thought, maybe the sight of the cheering crowds in Algiers would do the job for him and show the world how loved he really is. But the problem is, the enthusiasm of his own compatriots has passed very fast, and his approval ratings are in a free fall.

His choice of Algeria for his first official visit in the Maghreb has some questionable symbolism behind it. The president could've easily opted for showing support to the young and fragile democracy in Tunisia, or do a gesture of encouragement for political reform in Morocco - two countries in the region that didn't sleep through the Arab revolution. Tunisia even started it, in fact.

But no, instead he chose Algeria. A country that has been stuck in a limbo for years, and has become the symbol of stagnation. Hollande claims that he's opening a new page in the history of French-Algerian relations. But he's ignoring the fact that he's flirting with a regime that's drowning deeper and deeper into the swamp of oligarchic clientelism, and is turning into a one-trick pony, entirely dependent on the billions it earns from selling its oil and gas. On the other hand, obviously Hollande wants to open up the Algerian markets to French exports, which his country so desperately needs right now.

But this choice is actually hardly a surprise when you think about it, having in mind that Hollande is relying on stagnation in the internal front as well. His method of "the slow hand" is looking more and more like an excuse for postponing real reform. He stops at nothing, using all sorts of tricks to buy more time. For example the call for cuts in the public bureaucratic apparatus that have become so common throughout the Eurozone, should naturally be preceded by a sober assessment of the needs of the state. But that process could go on for months. And the loudly proclaimed postponement of the collection of taxes that are supposed to turn into a stimulus for new investment, are now being put off for 2014.

Meanwhile, unemployment is about to reach record highs, exportation is continuously shrinking, and the economic forecast is more than sombre. But that doesn't stop Francois Hollande from assuring the French that the worst part of the crisis is already behind their backs. That's either self-delusion or more of his typical populism, or both.

But people aren't that stupid. They're beginning to realize that the policies that Hollande promised for repairing the state finance, really do contain no substance, but tax hikes. That seems to be the only tool he knows, a panacea of some sorts. Although on this issue he's trying to pose as the "father of the nation". For example, when Gerard Depardieu tossed away his French citizenship and moved to a small Belgian village, Hollande humbly said that it was not his place to judge anybody for their choices. But it was him who started the whole process with his election promises that he'd raise the taxes of the wealthy French to 75%. Many of them have now decided enough is enough, and the line has been crossed. And this leads us back to the decision of the French constitutional court. It seems Hollande has crossed quite a few lines lately.

The growing discontent from Hollande's rule, and the lack of political will for real reform, are so far being parried with strategic tricks such as diverting the focus to such social debates like same-sex marriage. An important issue, no doubt, but one that's being given extreme priority over the looming fiscal and economic disaster - and for a good reason.

This course of action of the president is now being unwittingly supported by two unlikely allies - the financial markets and the French opposition party Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), led by no one else but good old Nicolas Sarkozy!

Because of the poor demand for stable state bonds on the market, France is still able to get vital funding at pretty nice interest rates; and the center-right conservative opposition at the moment is so fragmented and disunited that president Hollande can still breathe calmly and afford not to worry at least until next September, when the opposition is expected to elect a new leadership. Then the pendulum could sharply turn back and sweep him out. And I don't expect the opposition to do any better than the socialists if they're ever to return to power. So Hollande and his comrades would better gather themselves and think about it, or else France is in some deep trouble.

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 16:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
He does indeed have to act swiftly. Contrary to his optimistic claims, the French economy is looking more and more like a ticking time bomb. And not just some Greek fireworks, but a real nuke. Unemployment is rising, there's no growth, the debt is piling on. And that's the 2nd biggest economy in the Eurozone, one of the two major engines, alongside Germany (which is also beginning to slow down). That can be a serious threat to the entire EU, and one-sided solutions like raising taxes wouldn't suffice to do the job.

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 17:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Hollande's tax on the rich plan was thrown out by a french court (who happen to be rich)

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 18:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
It sounds pretty severe, but if I was making the sort of money that the couple thousand that would be taxed were making, I think I'd survive somehow. Might buy myself a couple Ferraris and a beach house to make myself feel better about it.
Edited Date: 30/12/12 18:50 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
I don't think it's a good idea either, I'm just saying it's not because I feel sorry for those getting taxed. ; )

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
When I'm writing society-affecting policies, I'll keep it in mind ;)

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
serious answer: Sure I do, but when I have an opinion on policies, I can think a policy is a good idea and still be sad it's needed, or sorry for some of the people it might affect, or think a policy is unhelpful and not really feel emotionally beholden to it at all as this case.

real answer: LET THEM BURN!!!

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Then he actually got the best of both worlds by making this blatantly not passable didn't he? smart man...

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 17:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5846b16-51b2-11e2-abb6-00144feab49a.html#axzz2GYfXCY7U

"The council said the way the tax was due to be imposed was unconstitutional, although it did not directly strike down the tax rate itself

"The council said the planned imposition of the tax on individuals, rather than the normal assessment by household, was contrary to the principle of equality. It pointed out that this could result in a household in which two individuals earned just less than €1m would be exempt, but a household in which one person earned just above the limit would be hit."

Apparently, the government will re-draft the bill in a way to conform with the court's ruling. Then it'll be reintroduced.

By the way the 75% tax rate will only affect about 1500 people and will raise only a few hundred million euros.

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 18:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Yeah I read the article. I think it's kind of a silly tax but not as drastic as it seems if it was only for 2 years. People making that much per year would find a way to eek out an existence on their measily 300,000 a year for two years.

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
You know what this tax is an invitation to? Many of those guys will attempt to forge their tax documents to make it look as if they're earning "just" a little below the taxed threshold; while others will outright throw their French passports away and then we're back to square 1. In fact it has already begun.

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:17 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Then why have taxes at all? Hell, people break laws sometimes too, why have laws?

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 19:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
I think ddstory summed it up in a single sentence better than I could: it's a matter of balance between interests. It's not an easy art and I'm not saying I know where exactly the balance is, but that's why I'm not a minister of finance after all.

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/12 14:19 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abomvubuso.livejournal.com
Look, I definitely don't want to sound like that corporate tool Mitt Romney, or any one of those whiny 1-percenters, but do bear with me for a minute. See, I run a small business. Real estate brokerage. We're based in Cape Town. Just 5 employees and me, plus a couple more guys representing us abroad. It's part of a larger joint venture that I initiated with several partners of mine a few years back. Combined, we have about 70 to 80 employees. Those are good, able people, with good, stable income. They're well paid. They can support their families, they know what their labour is worth and they do it, and I try to give back my best to them.

Now, with a 75% tax on this enterprise, all of it becomes unsustainable. Even if that's temporary (for 2 years). Bottom line is, there's just no way we could support the whole thing if 3/4 of its revenue goes away - and not for giving the state the opportunity to grant people the social benefits it ought to be providing in compensation for me being no longer able to provide them myself. If the state was using that money to provide these people with these benefits, fine. But this tax is actually designed for sealing the gaping holes in the national budget, i.e. healing a symptom without necessarily having the framework in place to allow the system to heal of the disease itself.

In that situation, I'd have just two options. Either move the whole enterprise across the border to Namibia or Botswana for the duration of the 2 years until this tax expires; or shut the whole thing down and move on to something smaller. Would I "eek out an existence" like you said? Sure I would! I don't live large, I don't have a huge mansion, I don't drive 3 Ferraris and I don't have a yacht. I'd manage. But now that I've moved the business to a neighbouring country, I'll be hiring Namibians or Tswana, not South Africans. Or, if I shut it down for two years (not sure I'll be able to bounce back after that time at all btw), this means all those people who are working with me now, would have to be dumped at the labour market, and noble guys like [livejournal.com profile] mahnmut would have a hell of a lot of job trying to get them back into a position where they could sustain a decent life with relative dignity. Within just two years, it would've all gone down. The entire structure. And I'm not sure we'd want to bring the enterprise back from abroad in 2 years either, provided it will have already established itself on a somewhat stable ground over there.

So you see, it really is a matter of balance, and a few lines not being crossed. You may ask, so where do you draw those arbitrary lines? Frankly, I don't know yet. Obviously they haven't been crossed in SA yet. Because, despite all the flaws in SA politics, there apparently still are a few guys with brains in their heads over there.
Edited Date: 31/12/12 14:28 (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 21:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Before I comment to the rest of this, let me just say thank you for a thread that is neither LULZ nor another rendition of the same ol' same ol' concerning the phallic-shaped weapons that shoot projectiles with lethal results. It does sound like Hollande's not going to enjoy having to turn his slogans into reality. OTOH, if a President gets swept in primarily on discontent about how the other side is doing it wrong, that hardly seems like an easy basis to execute policies pragmatically. As, after all, due to that limited enthusiasm the population might decide while it didn't like the other guys, it remembers what it voted in and has Buyer's Remorse.

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 21:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
That didn't seem to be such a problem for the American voters who re-elected Obama who was first like "Change, bro", and then was like, "Change, probably, maybe, wherever possible". :-D

Fine, fine, the alternative was some weirdo corporate puppet, so that must've helped them make up their mind quite a bit, but still.

> a thread that is neither LULZ nor another rendition of the same ol' same ol'

Some of us non-'Merikans do try real hard. ;-)

(no subject)

Date: 30/12/12 21:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Point conceded. Then again if Obama was running against the gang from Dumb and Dumber, he didn't need consistency. In the land of the blind, even the one-eyed man can be king. ;)

The effort is appreciated. :)

(no subject)

Date: 31/12/12 19:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 404.livejournal.com
For a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket trying to lift himself up by the handle. - Winston Churchill

Maybe Hollande will figure out that raising taxes to such a high amount will further damage the French economy without seeing any real benefits.

Credits & Style Info

Talk Politics.

A place to discuss politics without egomaniacal mods


MONTHLY TOPIC:

Failed States

DAILY QUOTE:
"Someone's selling Greenland now?" (asthfghl)
"Yes get your bids in quick!" (oportet)
"Let me get my Bid Coins and I'll be there in a minute." (asthfghl)

June 2025

M T W T F S S
       1
2 34 5 678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30