[identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
Enthusiasm for adopting the Euro among the newest EU members (those in East Europe) is waning. And that's understandable. For a long time, the Eurozone was deemed the Promised Land, but now things aren't looking that bright.

For example, the Latvian PM Valdis Dombrovskis has warned the EU that his people are turning against the European currency. There's now some considerable pushback against the plan to join the Eurozone in 2014.

Just 5 years ago (before the Euro crisis), everyone seemed to be more than eager to adopt the Euro, but countries like Latvia weren't ready. Now, when they're fully ready, they're skeptical about it. The Latvian government was among those that adopted the strictest austerity policies in Europe, in part to preserve the country's hopes for Eurozone entry. The official position of Dombrovskis' government is still that they're planning to join in 2014, but now they have to put tremendous efforts to hold that course.

And Latvia is not alone. In neighboring Estonia they know everything about crisis. After defaulting a few years back, they went through harsh austerity measures and they had a severe recession. But with perseverance and patience, they bounced back and eventually they joined the Eurozone last year. At present, Estonia is outgrowing the Eurozone. Similarly, Latvia is about to adopt the Euro after successfully fulfilling all requirements and doing quite decently in the economic department.

As for Bulgaria, another new EU member, similarly to Estonia they had hyper-inflation and they were compelled to hook their currency to the Euro in order to save themselves from implosion. Now Bulgaria is among the very few (actually 3) countries in the EU who are completely meeting all Maastricht criteria for being in the Eurozone, thanks to being exemplary in terms of fiscal discipline. But PM Boyko Borisov recently made it clear that they're not planning to do that final step towards the Eurozone any time soon. He said they don't intend to adopt the common currency, not before the Euro crisis is over, because they don't believe it's fair if the poorest EU country is forced to contribute money for bailing out countries that are many times wealthier. "We didn't cause the crisis, and neither should we save Europe from the crisis".

In Poland, too, the public push-back against adopting the Euro is mounting with the deepening of the Euro crisis. The government insists that the country could join the Eurozone only after it has fulfilled all criteria to the full, but more importantly, when "the Euro-zone becomes safe enough for all its members".

In neighboring Czech Republic, the Euro enthusiasm is even lower. The government doesn't intend to do any steps towards the Eurozone as long as it is in power (their term expires in 2014), and the year 2020 (at the earliest) is being mentioned. Plus, the issue has to be decided on a referendum. The Czech president Vaclav Klaus who's famous for his Euroskepticism has openly qualified the European stability mechanism as "monstrous and outrageous", and he says that he won't sign the amendment to the EU agreement that created the rescue fund for the Eurozone.

Now, of course it's natural to be wary of joining a system with no clear fiscal center, and one where the rules are being re-written as you go. On the other hand though, some of these countries already do have a currency board after having suffered major economic glitches, and this means their currencies are already tied to the Euro pretty closely. Which, in turn, means that these governments practically have their hands tied and they can't exactly have a blank check for carrying out policies of anti-cyclical, anti-crisis character without EU permission. They already have to comply with the fiscal and political tendencies as dictated by the leading Eurozone economies.

It's rather curious, though, that many of these "New Europe" countries have actually gotten the point much better than their "Old Europe" counterparts, and have taken the necessary measures to stop most leaks and seal the holes in their bucket to an extent good enough to allow them to outperform the Eurozone fiscally (if not economically). The irony is that it was the leading Euro-powers that used to constantly preach to East Europe; and now, like it or not, the teachers have to look for lessons from their students. It's funny how the wheel turns around.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 14:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
May I suggest there's low enthusiasm in 'old' Europe, too. Take Greece.
Even Germans are quietly building up their contingency plans of returning to merry old DM, shall Euro fail.
I'd welcome this, but there's going to be no fun at all, oh no.


(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 14:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
I hardly give a toss about US neocons.
In terms of geography Greece IS Europe, in terms of history - Greece is Europe ITSELF.
It joined EU in the 'first wave', before Austria, Spain and Portugal did so.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 22:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
For me, Europe includes Ghana and Tibet, just cos it makes text books make far less sense.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 15:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
(clearly interested) Do they have oil or gas there?

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 01:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Uh, no, actually, Greece is not Europe depending on how you define it. Europe is a term that means whatever people want it to mean, no more and no less. Which is why some people's Europe will include Belarus and Ukraine and exclude Russia, and some people's Europe will lump everything from the Atlantic to Vladivostok into Europe while excluding the UK. As a rule most continents are more defined by what is not-them than what is-them.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 09:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com
Are you saying we can never know for sure where the true Scotsmen live? QUANTUM SCOTSMEN!

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 13:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Absolutely. It's the Scotsman Uncertainty Principle: whenever you try to find them, their location changes. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 13:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com
The Quantum Uncertainty Principle says the exact opposite: you can't be sure where a particle is, until you've looked for it.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 10:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
Some people will include Russia, while excluding Ukraine and Belarus, too.
This world is fully packed with morons.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 14:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peamasii.livejournal.com
"Europe is a term that means whatever people want it to mean"

a better definition for Europe in this context is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 15:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
The trouble with having a shared currency throughout the Eurozone is that when the Eurozone gets ill, the disease spreads to all members. I know this was the idea of solidarity, dealing with problems together, but on the other hand, countries that are doing everything right, now have to pay for the systematic mistakes of others.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 18:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peamasii.livejournal.com
The EU was never intended to dominate sovereign policy, but as it turns out the monetary union as of late is very much tending towards centralized policy and that is strongly rejected by small economies who are growing fast in comparison to the EU average.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 13:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
But that's one of the biggest flaws in the Euro. Monetary union without fiscal union. Turns out it doesn't work so well.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 14:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peamasii.livejournal.com
It works well in some aspects (like trade and law), not so well in others (like debt and solvency). Without the euro, the EU would not have become the world's largest economic zone. With it, some countries are doomed to play second fiddle to the ECB decisions. One can't have everything at once.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 20:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Won't matter whether or not they don't want it, Belgium will make them vote 'yes' so many times that they finally say 'Ah, fuck it, we'll vote yes so they'll stop bothering us.' Seems to be how the EU interprets democracy, at any rate.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 22:18 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I meant Brussels and you responded before I could edit. My mistake. Brussels does tend to send things to countries over and over again until they finally decide no means yes. I fail to see why this is going to be anything but par for the course.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 23:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
Well, Belgium/Brussels/whatever still hasn't sent us an order/request/whatever to sign anything regarding the EU bailout mechanism, and btw our very own Dear Leader aka Boyko "Batman (https://www.google.bg/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=643&q=boyko+borisov&oq=boyko+borisov&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24l9.411.2404.0.2566.13.10.0.3.3.0.117.821.8j2.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.F5C_W6QwpGU)" Borisov has preemptively warned them not to try that, since we don't have the money to join anyway.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 01:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Not yet, at any rate. Hopefully they don't keep trying to ram the square peg into the round hole, but I have skepticism that Brussels is any wiser than Washington in that regard.

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 20:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
The EU is such a rock solid currency. The exchange rate when I order music manuscript reproductions from Germany, man-- it's a killer.

But I'm glad it's rock solid. I don't wish bad things on my Euro brothers and sisters!

(no subject)

Date: 27/12/12 22:29 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
It's not, the USD is just a toilet currency now :P

We can travel to the US and live like kings now, it's like Thailand.

(no subject)

Date: 28/12/12 10:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papasha-mueller.livejournal.com
But no sex massage, however.
Monika's initiative didn't get supported wide.

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